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 25 Help identify (Read 1994 times)
Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #15 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 2:40pm
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I am having a terrible time reducing the pics - be patient! Only 2 of the 3 are usable. Close-up of the s/n was unreadable.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #16 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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Here you go.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #17 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 3:08pm
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I would most definitely restore that, even though it will take awhile and cost a few bucks. Treat it as a long-term "fun" project. If you rush and pay retail for everything you may approach its' actual value - but not everyone gets to start at the $50 point! Here is what it should look like
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #18 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 4:41pm
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Mark - I did receive your pictures of the Krag carbine and the Remington 1903A3. They can be downloaded and viewed, but, not altered on my computer.

FWIW - Actually, Federal law allows rifle barrels to be as short as 16 inches, now. Shotgun barrels still have to be 18 inches long.

Your Remington 1903A3 appears to have been cut-down for 'Hunting'. The work was neatly done, but, not official government work. If it were mine, I would have a replacement, full length, surplus 1903A3 barrel put on it and stretch the stock. (If the barrel is 16 inches long, measured from the muzzle to the closed bolt-face, it is legal).

Too bad about the alterations to your model 1896 carbine stock. (Thank you, Dick Hosmer, for kindly posting Mark's pictures). The metal appears quite nice.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #19 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 6:12pm
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Thanks for telling me about the new 16" limit - brought about by the black rifle boys?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #20 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 6:50pm
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Since, October 22, 1968, you must have 'cut class' that day Dick!

Not so many 'Black Rifles' around, 50 years ago.
« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:41pm by butlersrangers »  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #21 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 12:50pm
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Chuck or Dick, Can you put a ballbark figure on 34644's worth if it was restored to original condition, shiny barrel, no pitting? Thank You Mark
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #22 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 2:33pm
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Ballpark - $1,200 to $1,600

Keep in mind, a restoration is a restoration and not necessarily the way your carbine entered service, was issued to the 3rd Cavalry, or left service, when sold to the public.

There are model 1896 carbine Stock variations, 1896 carbine sight variations, bolt and cut-off variations. It is hard to get it right or credible and the finish on everything has to be consistent.

In the end, you have a 'parts gun' that is worth the value of the parts. (Although, some very interesting parts).
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #23 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 3:57pm
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I'd concur on the value, might even be higher. The stock and the rear sight will be the big problems. Chuck's idea of using (even if temporarily) a rifle sight is a good one - 95% of the people couldn't tell the difference from 5' away. And, of course you could resell it when no longer neaded. Everything else is common and resonable.

A question, is the stock drilled for three rod sections in a trinagle, or just two, one above the other? If the latter - which are EXTREMELY rare - you might want to consider having a wood expert restore the front of your stock.

In selecting metal parts, be choosy and get the best color/patina match that you can. It's nice that the bore is good but that is not a huge factor in the value.
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #24 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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Thank You Chuck and Dick for the evaluation info; sad that the restoration parts outstrip the rifles value, seems a documented krag deserves a better fate. Will try to preserve it as best as possible for it's next home. Hope to see the local gunsmith within the next couple weeks to see if what appears to be 34644's first obstacle can be overcome....the sight screws are snapped off in the barrel. Don't think that will go well but if it can be overcome....one step at a time.  Not sure what a three hole as opposed to a two hole drilled stock is Dick; can you explain more specifically what to look for?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #25 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:21pm
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Eventually, a butt-trap was adopted for U.S. Krag rifles and carbines. This provided a place to store Cleaning-Rod sections. Later, many stocks had the cavity altered to also store an oil container.

On later Krags, the top large hole, bored into the Stock-Butt, had 3 smaller holes (drilled into the bottom) that accepted 3 rod sections.

The early carbine stocks had just 2 holes, to accept 2 cleaning-rod sections.

(Mark - You have to shine a light down the top large butt-trap hole, to see the bottom and how the smaller holes are configured).
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2018 at 5:46am by butlersrangers »  
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Re: Help identify
Reply #26 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:02pm
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Mark - Hopefully, you have access to a good gunsmith.
Do not let a 'Klutz' damage the rear sight holes on your barrel!

Do No Harm!

Krag (rear-sight) screw-threads are kind of rare (.156 inch X 30 TPI). You will not find replacement screws at the local hardware store or most gun shops!

I have had good success removing the cut-off screw shanks. (People, use to, cut the heads off of the sight-screws to fill the tapped holes).

My method is to lightly center-punch the remains of the ('cut') screw. Carefully, drill a fine hole deep down the center of the screw-shank. Wipe some 'liquid wrench' around the barrel sight-screw area. Tap a small screw-driver into the shank for a 'friction fit'. Then unscrew the 'headless' screw.

This has worked for me four or five times with no damage to the hole or female sight-screw threads.

Do No Harm!

p.s. It would be a good idea not to shoot this Krag in its current state. There is no barrel-band holding the barrel solidly in the stock's barrel channel. It is real easy to crack a Krag stock when the barrel lifts and puts stress on the (close together) trigger-guard screws.
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2018 at 5:53pm by butlersrangers »  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #27 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:17pm
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Hi Chuck, Thank You for the info; the stock is the more common 3 hole version. Appreciate your advise not to fire and will not do so. The stock butt plate was different then the pic you posted, it is checkered and when opening found a small piece of paper which hopefully you will be able to make some sense of....180 gr s.f. 0-100 yds inches 50 & 3/4, 100 0, 200 -5.5,300 -22.5,400 -5.5, 500 -18.8 Looks like someone has been firing this rifle at some time? Here in ny, close to city there are no good local gunsmiths; we live under the libs rule here and they have done away with them; fortunately we have a cabin in vt and the gunsmith there is very knowledgeable; thing is he is 65 and not that motivated to work anymore. He is good natured and takes on all work but finds himself only able to complete about 50% of it and that can take up to a yr. As you say don't do any harm above all, so would ask you this as you seem to have experience with snapped sight screws; would you be willing to take on the job if it is not doable from this point? Would it be legal to send you the action in the mail? How much would it cost? Mark
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #28 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 3:22pm
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Mark - U.S. Krag butt-plates were made smooth.

It sounds like someone has either 'checkered' the original plate or shortened the butt-stock a bit, and fitted, a 1903 Springfield rifle ('checkered' variant) butt-plate to your stock. (A clear, 'close-up' picture would explain a lot).

Interesting paper in the butt-trap - It appears to be a 'trajectory chart' (to aid adjusting sights) for 180 grain S.P. (soft-point bullet) .30-40 'Krag' hunting ammo, for various distances.

At 50 yards, bullet strikes 3/4 inch above point of aim. At 100 yards, bullet strikes point of aim. At 200 yards, bullet strikes 5.5 inches low. At 300 yards, bullet strikes 22.5 inches low. (400 & 500 yard data doesn't make sense, unless, it is 55" and 188")?

I am sending you a PM. Check the top of this page (in the Banner) for message prompt to 'click on'.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #29 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 5:43am
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Mark sent me a picture of his carbine's butt-plate, which I have edited a bit.

The butt-plate is a 'checkered' one from a 1903 Springfield rifle. Note, the butt-trap 'door' is a larger diameter than the 'door' on a Krag butt-plate.

The butt-end of Mark's stock must have been shortened about 3/4 of an inch. A 1903 butt-plate is about 1/4" shorter, (heel to toe), than a Krag butt-plate.
  
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