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 10 Neat Time Capsule (Read 7542 times)
butlersrangers
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Neat Time Capsule
Jun 25th, 2018 at 8:09pm
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Here is an interesting 'time capsule' for sale on ebay.

It displays a habbit I have noted in the past:

'Back In The Day', when Shooters/Hunters put a "No-Drill" aperture sight on their Krag, they tended to save discarded parts in the box the after-market sight came in, along with the instructions. (Those original parts were just too pretty & useful to throw away)!

This Gem indicates a Pacific aperture sight was sent C.O.D. to Mr. Walter N. Steffen of American Fork, Utah, on June 4, 1931. The cost was $5.12, plus a 10 cent fee. (This was during the Depth of the Great Depression).

Mr. Steffen Paid the C.O.D. (Wow, a $5.12 sight on a $1.50 Rifle)!

Judging by the cut-off lever, the Krag was a model 1898 and the Pacific sight got installed.

The model 1902 rear sight features the leaf and binding-screw knob that was originally intended for The Rod-Bayonet 1903 Springfield.

This trivia is all interesting to me.

p.s. - The sight disc is likely a Pacific original, set aside by Mr. Steffen, to have a better view for Hunting.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #1 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 1:53pm
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The address interests me. That is nine blocks from where I grew up (4xx 17th Avenue) and is definitely a totally residential area - must have been a garage (called basements in SF even though above grade) next time I am in the City (which may be years, if ever) I'll try to remember to have a look. Google is no help, house numbers not visible, but they are the typical for SF 25' wide/zero clearance lots. Other parts of the country call similar construction "row houses" in a perjorative sense, but if you want one of these, you'ld better bring LOTS of money, often well over $1 million.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #2 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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Good catch Dick. The 682 24th Ave. address must have been an early  S.F. location for the Pacific Gun  Sight Co.

All other materials, I have seen, give the Company's address as 355 Hayes Street, San Francisco, Calif.

Nick Stroebel, "Old Gunsights & Rifle Scopes", stated: "The Pacific Gunsight Company, 355 Hayes Street, San Francisco, California, was started in the late 1920s to produce a quality line of reloading tools as well as gun-sights".

Stoebel reports the 1953 edition of the "Gun Digest" as the last mention of the Pacific Co. manufacturing gun-sights. Reloading tools were manufactured until the company's 1991 closure.

The Pacific sight 'literature' often mentions a 1931 patent date.

Pacific sights also were eventually packaged in a distinctive box.
(Due to postal labels, I can't tell if that is the case with the sight I showed at the start of this thread).

(Attached catalog pages from 1934):
« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:47pm by butlersrangers »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #3 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 9:13pm
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Pacific instructions with the better known address:
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #4 - Jun 27th, 2018 at 3:30am
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That's a little more like it - though still somewhat residential. It may be the street level shop area of the gray apartment building (which looks old enough) or perhaps the brick-face storefront to the north (left) which appears to haver been refaced (or built new) in the 50s. Again, real numbers cannot be seen and Google's "guesses" are far more often wrong than right.
« Last Edit: Jun 27th, 2018 at 8:03pm by Dick Hosmer »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #5 - Jun 27th, 2018 at 8:36pm
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I 'Google searched' the patent number cited in the Pacific Catalog #8 (1934).

It appears the inventor of the Pacific 'No-Drill' rear sight was Mr. Walter Joseph Sutton.
The 'proto-type/patent drawing' version shows a 'tubular' main body. This obviously was changed to machined 'flat' surfaces, when actually manufactured.

Attached are the pages from the approved (1931) patent. It was applied for in 1928. Sketches show crude renderings of 1903 Springfield (Fig.#1) and Krag (Fig.#4) actions.
« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:01pm by butlersrangers »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #6 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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I believe, I have found the "Pacific Sight" inventor in a number of records. I wonder if Mr. Walter Joseph Sutton sold the Rights to his approved sight patent to "Pacific"?

Checking 1930 U.S. Census records, it appears Walter was a 36 year old Machinist  living with his wife, Helen B., son, Jack W., and daughter, Lorraine, at 424 Balboa, San Francisco, Cal.

Walter was born in San Francisco, June 1, 1893. The second youngest of ten children, at age 16 he was a Cutter Operator.

In a 1915 City Directory, Walter is a Machinist residing at 1111 Steiner.

He married in 1918. His WW1 Draft Registration has him living at 2123 Bush St. and "Self-Employed" at a Machine Shop located at 223 Fielson St. (?) - maybe Freelon St.(?).

His WW2 Draft Registration card has Walter J. Sutton living at 301 S. Vineyard St., Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii. He was employed in the Instrument Shop at Pearl Harbor.

Soc. Sec. records indicate Walter died at San Francisco in February 1976.

I could not link this Walter Joseph Sutton to addresses or other direct connection to the Pacific Gun Sight Company. However, he seems likely to be the San Francisco Inventor, documented in the Pacific Gun Sight patent.

I suspect maybe he sold the rights or received a royalty on his "no-drill" sight design.

As manufactured by the Pacific Gun Sight Company, Walter J. Sutton's design was drastically changed. However, the basic principle, of the aperture sight being retained by a 'pin' in the magazine cut-off hole and a 'lock-screw', remained.
« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2018 at 2:33pm by butlersrangers »  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #7 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 11:22pm
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434 Balboa would be about 20 blocks from the 24th Avenue address, in fact Balboa is one of the cross streets at the other address, and, there used to be a streetcar line connecting the two! Bush and Steiner are both residential, while Freelon (there is such a street) would have been industrial.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #8 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 8:45am
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I looked at (San Francisco) Polk Directories for 1936 and 1939 (online). This provided some explanations and clarifications.

In 1936, Walter Joseph Sutton, residing at 524 24th Ave. Walter is listed as a 'mech.' at W.J. Sutton & R.J. Miller, "Guns" business at 355 Hayes St. (This is the later address used by the Pacific Gun Sight Co.).

Robert J. Miller, Mgr. and Robert S. Miller, Sec. live in a residence at 682 Twenty-fourth Ave. (This is the address that appears on the Sight Instructions at the very start of this thread).

It appears that in the early days, the Millers' home address was used as the company's mailing address.

In the 1936 Directory, there is no mention, that I can find, of the Pacific Gun Sight Co., (although, catalogs and products bore the Pacific name).
« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:06pm by butlersrangers »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #9 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 9:19am
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In the 1939 Polk Directory (San Francisco) The Pacific Gun Sight Company is listed. Its address is given as 353 Hayes (error?). It is pretty close to 355 Hayes!

In 1939, Robert J. Miller and Robert S. Miller are at separate residences. (Likely son Robert S. got married). Both men are listed as connected to the Pacific Gun Sight Company.

In 1939, Walter J. Sutton is listed as a 'mech.', but, no connection is any longer shown to the Pacific Gun Sight Co. or the Millers.

FWIW - In the 1938 Polk Directory, I can find no Listing for the Pacific Gun Sight Co. That year, Robert J. Miller is listed as a 'Gunsmith' operating at 355 Hayes Street.

My hunch is that around 1938, possibly, Walter J. Sutton was bought out and the Millers legally organized things as the "Pacific Gun Sight Co".
« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2018 at 3:54pm by butlersrangers »  
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Kerz
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #10 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 9:29am
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The Hornady company history shows a vintage ad with Pacific's address as 2901 El Camino Real, Palo Alto, CA.  (You need to Login to view media files and links).  The Hornady info states Pacific was adqiured in 1971.
Vic
  

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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #11 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 2:40pm
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Still have, and use, my Pacific Jr. press, with dedicated (.30-40) ram. The interchangeable button shell holders were yet to be invented.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #12 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:56pm
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It is funny how obscure and unknown the history of small specialized companies can be.

Older 'Gun Guys' grew up aware of Pacific Reloading Dies and Presses.

San Francisco made, Pacific Gun Sights are well known to us on 'Sportered' Krag rifles.

Pacific Catalogs exist from the early 1930s. Strangely, the company is not referred to as "Pacific Gun Sight Co.", in the (S.F.) Polk Directories, until 1939.

The actual history of this company seems unreported and buried. Only a 'slight glimpse' appears from assorted records.
« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:31pm by butlersrangers »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #13 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:34am
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FWIW - The last entry I could find for the Pacific Gun Sight Company in the San Francisco Polk Directory was 1948-1949. The Company was listed at 355 Hayes Street and 1418 Polk.

The 1948-1949 Directory is also the last listing I found for Robert J. Miller and Robert S. Miller having residences in S.F.

It is possible the Company moved and relocated around this time.

San Francisco Sanborn Maps indicate the building at 355 Hayes Street was built in 1924 and is still standing. (Much modified, I suspect).

I have yet to find photographs or much historical detail on this seemingly obscure company.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Neat Time Capsule
Reply #14 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:56am
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'rcathey' posted an undated American Rifleman article, by J.R. Mattern, "The Krag After 40 Years", on the Military Surplus Collectors Forums.

Given the title, the article likely appeared around 1932 to 1934. The Pacific and "Western" (Redfield) 'no-drill' rear sights were new products at the time of the article's publication.

KCA Member, 'rcathey', generously gave permission to display parts of his post here.

attached: mention of Pacific and Western rear sights from J.R. Mattern article. Graphics of Pacific and Western rear sights and Pacific front-sight.
  
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