Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
 10 Two Things I Learned Yesterday (Read 2449 times)
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Jul 25th, 2018 at 4:48pm
Print Post  
Slipped out to the range to fire form some Jamison brass using 10gr Unique and the NOE 314-160 last evening.

I had replaced the sight blade with a NOS Lyman gold bead in the hopes that I might be able to see it somewhat better on the target.

I believe I'm going to have to mount a scout scope as I'm not sure if I can blame the 4" groups at 25 yards on the load or my eyes,,,,,,. 

I notice there is a Pacific no drill recvr sight on eBay, but I'm not sure if that would ameliorate the problem as well as a scope would.

Noteworthy was the fact that I had to give up trying to feed them from the magazine as the cartridges would nose dive and plant the flat point against the magazine just low of the feed ramp.  Inexperience with the Krag leaves me unsure if I have a mechanical problem or if this design just will not feed in the rifle.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5070
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #1 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 7:26pm
Print Post  
Hamish:
In my experience, Krags are 'individuals'; there is variability in whether a Krag successfully feeds various bullet profiles.

In theory, if a Krag feeds original 'Ball Ammo', with its 220 grain RN projectile, the rifle is working correctly.

Recently, I was shooting two model 1896 Krags using reloads with 168 grain Sierra 'Match King' projectiles, seated to 3.075" Over-All-Length.

One Krag would feed a full magazine of these cartridges flawlessly.

The other Krag jammed on every round, with the spitzer point catching on the barrel breech, at approximately "8 o'clock".

(Both rifles will feed 180 grain 'Hunting' projectiles and 220 original "Ball" rounds, trouble free).

Receiver sights tighten up groups for most shooters. The 'aperture' size can be changed to allow for lighting conditions. The goal is to look through the 'aperture' and see the front-blade and target clearly.

Attached photos: 1.&2. 168 Sierra Mk reload nicely 'centers' and feeds on this Krag.
3.&4. On this Krag, every round hangs-up on barrel breech.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #2 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 10:19pm
Print Post  
Krags seem to be almost human in their love of various food.  Some will feed spitzers reliably... some won't.  Some are accurate with the 180 gr sp... some aren't.  Most will do well with the standard 220 gr rn "Ball" round, but not all.  I have a friend who practically shoots out the X at 200 yards shooting a 165 gr rn bullet... and I had a hard time holding the 9 ring with them!  The trick is to find what your particular Krag loves best... and then stick with it!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2018 at 4:54am
Print Post  
Thanks very much for the replies gents. I need to cast some 311365's and 311284's for it, but not till it cools off.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #4 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 10:07pm
Print Post  
FWIW, I usually shoot the NOE 311365 at 185 gr out of my Krag BR sporter rig.  Bob Wolfe cast them for me, sized to .310... and I can practically put two through the same hole at 200 yards!

My Vintage/Roosevelt Match Krag gets the standard Krag go-to of a 220 gr RN/40 gr IMR 4350... and I do alright with it!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #5 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 12:23am
Print Post  
psteinmayer wrote on Jul 27th, 2018 at 10:07pm:
FWIW, I usually shoot the NOE 311365 at 185 gr out of my Krag BR sporter rig.  Bob Wolfe cast them for me, sized to .310... and I can practically put two through the same hole at 200 yards!

My Vintage/Roosevelt Match Krag gets the standard Krag go-to of a 220 gr RN/40 gr IMR 4350... and I do alright with it!


Care to share your 311365 load?  (I'm concentrating on Unique and 2400 at the moment)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #6 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 5:22pm
Print Post  
Hamish wrote on Jul 28th, 2018 at 12:23am:
Care to share your 311365 load?  (I'm concentrating on Unique and 2400 at the moment)


The NOE 311365 is gas-checked.  I can't tell you what the composition of the cast material, but Bob (madsenshooter) can tell you.  I load them with 19.0 grains of AA-5744 and a CCI-200 primer.  It's a nice mild load, and just lobs 'em in beautifully! 

I worked up this load based on the tables in Lyman's 47th edition.  Lyman's has good data, but sometimes, you have to cross-check their data (there has been some reports of incorrect data).
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #7 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 6:19pm
Print Post  
Thank you Paul.  I've got a pound of 5744 squirreled away and will give it a try.

Rich
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
madsenshooter
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 993
Joined: Sep 10th, 2009
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #8 - Jul 29th, 2018 at 12:00am
Print Post  
The bullets I cast for Paul are likely 25-27BHN copper hardened.  He's taking it easy on em!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #9 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 12:53am
Print Post  
They certainly are beautiful bullets!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #10 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 4:28am
Print Post  
That copper enriched alloy just plain works!

Alright, I guess I'm going to have to get the pot out,,,,,.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5070
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #11 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 5:43am
Print Post  
What exactly is Copper Hardened Bullet Alloy and how do you 'do' it?

(Two things I need to learn today).
« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2018 at 2:48pm by butlersrangers »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #12 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 5:22pm
Print Post  
br,

I'm on the road at the moment, but the short answer is to alloy 0.25-0.50% copper into the mix.  The easiest way is to order from Rotometals.  ( I will look the exact alloy up later) I use a mix of 48lb.s or so of 50/50 pistol range scrap and WW's with a 2 lb. ingot of Rotometal, then add a bit of solder as I go while actually casting.  Smelting in 50lb batches is easy on the old man,,,,.

Experimenting with adding copper actually goes back to at least the opening years of the 1900's.

That one quarter to one half of one percent copper presents multiple advantages.  Increased malleability and toughness under pressure and the ability of to withstand much higher velocities top the list.  When a cast Bullet of this alloy is smashed with a hammer it does not fragment and crack, it merely deforms.  Absolutely what you're looking for in a hunting bullet, yes?

The recent work done was a collaboration among several individuals over on Cast Boolits.  I will try to post links later also.

As Bob and Paul have discovered, the Cu alloy works very well from pedestrian speeds to very high velocities.  Honestly, I've gotten to the point that it's all I use in anything other than revolvers and semi automatic pistols.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5070
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #13 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 9:11pm
Print Post  
Hamish - Thanks!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hamish
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 78
Location: Williamson County, Illinois
Joined: Jun 1st, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Two Things I Learned Yesterday
Reply #14 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 1:41am
Print Post  
Rotometals: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Number 1, RotoNickel, Super Tough, Grade 11, all can be used to add to your all if you get your copper percentage in the aforementioned percentages and have a fairly balanced alloy, if I'm not far off.  One caution:  there is zero advantage to a higher percentage of copper, and you can actually get too much. **With copper added, your bullets will continue to grow about a thousandth over the course of a couple of weeks to a month**

One fellow decided to run with 5% copper for a while and could not understand why his bullets kept growing for months!  MORE THAN ONE HALF OF ONE PERCENT HAS SHOWN ZERO ADDED BENEFIT, so,,,,,,,,.

The "Copper Hard", I believe could be most likely cut 50/50 with good range scrap.  If a fellow was OCD about knowing what was in his alloy, you *could* use it as is, but I'm not one of those folks.

A note on MY definition of "range scrap".  I've always run approximately 70/30 reclaimed commercial cast/jacketed off my clubs pistol range.

I just waded through a few of the old threads from 2012-13 and I dont think its worth posting, but if you're really interested in seeing evidence of how much resistance can be shown when some folks apple carts get upset, search "copper enriched" over on Cast Boolits.

I'm not promising anything but I'm going to nudge one of the biggest brains in the whole effort to post on this thread.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top