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 25 1898 cut down rifle? (Read 12915 times)
concretus
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1898 cut down rifle?
Aug 6th, 2018 at 10:58pm
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Hello everyone and thank you for allowing me to join...
    I just registered after seeing this site...Considering I have a couple of US model 1898's and really enjoy shooting them I see there is a world if information here...
    I recently purchased a model 1898 carbine;(I believe it was a rifle cut down) and was hoping to get a little information on it. the S/N is 1946XX the cartouche says 1898 with the initials C.A. just forward it. It has the 1901 type rear sight, front and rear sling swivels (I apologize if I get any terms incorrect), and the 1903 Springfield front sight band and blade. The finish is about 70-75% and the bore is bright and shiny; one of the main reasons I bought it. Shoots Sierra 175gr MK like a dream!   I read that after the 1903 was adopted. The DCM and NRA cut down Krag rifles to carbine type to sell to the public. Is that accurate? I realize these don't command the value and desire of the "true" carbines but any information or history on them would be greatly appreciated. Thanks..
  
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Culpeper
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #1 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 12:51am
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First, welcome to the site.  You are among friends here.

Having said that it would help us by having pictures of your Krag.

There is a photos section here where you can compare your guns to un-messed with guns.

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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #2 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 1:54pm
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Here are some photos... I apologize for some not oriented correctly. Photobucket can be a real PITA sometimes....

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[URL=http://s850.photobucket.com/user/concretus/media/IMG_7
  
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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #3 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 1:59pm
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And More:

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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #4 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 2:04pm
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And a few more.... As you can see. the handguard is a replacement. I show the original one there also...

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FredC
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #5 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 2:06pm
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Looking at that crown I am not sure if it is an official NRA/DCM conversion. It is nicely done, I would be happy to own such a nice looking carbine, official or not.
  
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Culpeper
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle
Reply #6 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 2:30pm
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A M1903 front sight on a Krag is always a dead giveaway of a cut down rifle.  But I like the rest of the rifle especially the rear sight.

I don't know how you removed the handguard and you may already know how to remove them but the correct way is to remove the rear sight and then slide the sight to the front sight and carefully lift it off.  This is more of an instruction to folks new to Krags lurking out on the net.

Don't ask me how I found out.  (sniff, sniff)

  

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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #7 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 3:08pm
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Thanks for the replies and feedback...
  
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FredC
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #8 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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Don't go away, a lot more info will be forthcoming. I have an article published in Gun Digest about the "Last Krag" at the house. I think it was the NRA/DCM conversion, these will not be the valuable original carbines, but conversions done at the west coast armory to move the surplus Krags out faster. I can not remember all the details, whether the barrel was given a full crown and was the 1903 Springfield sight used. Other gunsmiths and kitchen table mechanics could have followed the pattern, to make a handier deer rifle out of the original rifles.
Others will reply soon with the details.
« Last Edit: Aug 8th, 2018 at 2:04pm by FredC »  
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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #9 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 5:13pm
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FredC wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 4:46pm:
Don't go away, a lot more info will be forthcoming. I have an article published in Gun Digest about the "Last Krag" at the house. I think it was the NRA/DCM conversion, these will not be the valuable original carbines, but conversions done at SA (I think) to move the surplus Krags out faster. I can not remember all the details, whether the barrel was given a full crown and was the 1903 Springfield sight used. Other gunsmiths and kitchen table mechanics could have followed the pattern, to make a handier deer rifle out of the original rifles.
Others will reply soon with the details.


I'm not going anywhere...
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #10 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 8:31pm
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'concretus' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

Your Krag, #194608, would have been assembled around April, 1899, as a U.S. model 1898 rifle.

The Stock is a cut-down rifle stock. It has a patch on the forearm tip, filling the lightening-channel, that was exposed when it was cut.

Your stock has been recycled a couple of times. It has three 'Proof" stamps. The foremost "Circled - Script P" was stamped when the Krag it was on was function tested for acceptance. The second "Circled - Script P" was applied when the stock was re-used on a Krag undergoing rebuilding. The plain "P" was applied over the original stamp, when a Krag was again subjected to function testing, likely around WW1.

Your Stock 'Cartouche' Has the letters "J.S.A." above a date. This stands for Joseph Sumner Adams, the shop foreman, where the acceptance inspections were done. I cannot make out the date.

You mentioned, your stock is marked with a "CA". I think, I can just see the edge of an "A" in one of your photos.

Frank Mallory wrote, (in "The Krag Rifle Story"), that around 1908, letters started being stamped on Krag stocks to identify the facility that had done cleaning and repair work.

BTW - Krags were in U.S. Service and National Guard use from 1894 to about 1919. Krag rifles remained even later on U.S. Ships. By WW1, the Army had relegated Krags to 'Training' use or secondary service. A lot of Krags were 'refurbished', during their service time. During the process, rifles were taken apart, parts were checked, refinished, and put together in new combinations of parts.

Something else to note: Your hand-guard appears to be of Italian walnut (which the U.S. used on some Krags). The hand-guard is the correct type for the model 1901 sight, that you have. However, the hand-guard has been 'stepped' for the 'sight-lever'. This should not be necessary, but, for some reason, your rear-sight sits LOW.

I wonder if your Krag has a replacement barrel, possibly made from a 1903 Springfield barrel?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #11 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 8:53pm
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'Concretus' - Are there any markings on your Krag's barrel?

When commercial gunsmiths needed replacement barrels for Krags, they sometimes used surplus 1903 Springfield barrels. The barrel would be shortened at the breech, re-chambered, and notched for the Krag extractor.

Such barrels are smaller in diameter than a Krag barrel. They will have Armory initials, 'Ordnance Bomb' and a date, stamped on the barrel just behind the front-sight.

An example:
  
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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #12 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:29pm
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There aren't any markings behind the front sight. I think it doesn't have the taper or profile of a 1903 Springfield...

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concretus
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #13 - Aug 7th, 2018 at 10:30pm
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Thank you for the nice welcome and details!!
  
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Re: 1898 cut down rifle?
Reply #14 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:30am
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'Concretus' - Thanks for your additional pictures. Your barrel with the "P" (proof) marking is a Krag barrel.

I don't know why your rear-sight is setting so low in its hand-guard.

Attached, is a photo of my model 1899 Krag carbine, showing the carbine version of the 1901 sight with a rifle-style hand-guard.

Also a picture of a Krag stock with an "H.H." marking and Ordnance Dept. crest.

It is my belief that these markings date from a period of rebuild work just prior to WW1.
  
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