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 25 Possible un modified 1892??? (Read 1567 times)
Mark_Daiute
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #30 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 9:38pm
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If anyone has an 1892 cleaning rod, remember, I was first in line and I am looking for an 1892, open front band.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #31 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 10:20pm
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Joe Poyer gives the most information on the model 1892 cleaning rods.

I don't know if his dimensions are correct. He describes four variations.

Poyer gives the thread as .181"X 26TPI (I think!) and the threaded area as .475" long.

He gives rod lengths as going from 29.50", later reduced to 29.25".

He gives basic rod diameter, (not including head-area), as tapering, from .20" (behind the head) to .189" (in front of threaded area at rear).

FWIW - If I was having one made, I would get a $12 front section (of the 3-section rod) from Grandpa's Gun-parts. (The head dimensions are almost identical to the last type of model 1892 rod).

I would have the front-section rod's thread turned down to a simple pin. I would have 21.25 inches of .20" diameter rod counter-bored to accept the 'pin' and have both rods silver-soldered together.
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2018 at 3:52am by butlersrangers »  
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Knute1
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #32 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 3:24am
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Been offline for a while due to a lightning strike 5 ft from the house. But just logged on and found this great post about a newly acquired Krag drawing a lot of attention. John, if  possible and when you have time, could you post a full length photo of your rifle?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #33 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:41am
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A nice inexpensive item, to go along with Jon's Krag, would be a reprint of the 1894 Ordnance Department booklet: "Description and Rules For The Management of the U.S. Magazine Rifle and Carbine Caliber .30".

These show up at gun shows and on ebay. The 1894 version shows the front and rear areas of the second type of model 1892 cleaning rod.

Although illustrated at "full size", the rod graphic may be slightly oversize and not conducive to precise measurement.

FWIW: Poyer gives thread size as .196"X26TPI.

'Ordnance Rules' illustration appears about 24TPI and about .300" length of threaded area.

Probably irrelevant, but, threaded end on three-section rods is approximately .162"X30TPI.

  
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olderthansome
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #34 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 12:03pm
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'Ordnance Rules' illustration appears about 24TPI and about .300" length of threaded area.

Brophy shows as 26TPI and .285  -  good eye!

  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #35 - Aug 16th, 2018 at 1:45pm
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'olderthansome' - You had the 'good-eye'. I totally missed the drawing in the appendix, (page 212), of Brophy's - "The Krag Rifle".

It appears Joe Poyer was simply citing the dimensions given by Brophy.

FWIW - 26TPI is the pitch used on Krag side-plate and sling-swivel screws.

It would be fun to measure an original "long wiping rod" to confirm Brophy's dimensions.

p.s. Brophy also has a dimension drawing of the 1st type of brass tipped rod on page 212.
  
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Jon Waite
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #36 - Aug 19th, 2018 at 2:12am
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Jeeze. Thank you guys so much for the information. This is a wealth of knowledge that i have never found with any other group ive been a part of. I have a buddy that is a machinest and i will see if he can make me a replacement with the specs you guys have provided. Just curious, since the 1892 has no provision for a cleaning kit, what was the threaded end made to utilize? Also i live in Bloomington il. My mothers side of the family is from LaSalle.  Well after they came here from Slovonia in 1918 that is.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #37 - Aug 19th, 2018 at 5:15am
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'Jon' - I am not aware of any appendage that screwed on to the threaded end of the Krag 'ramrod'.

I believe the 'manual' says it all. The treads were to retain the Rod in the Stock, via the threaded 'rod-stop', (the plate inletted into the stock).
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #38 - Aug 19th, 2018 at 7:03am
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Has anybody used an 1891 Argentine cleaning rod as a type 1 or 2 substitute???

                                   Krag              Argentine

Total Length                  29 5/8              28 3/8
Rod Diameter                0.196                0.201
Head Diameter              0.259                0.280
Head Length                 1.165                1.155
Head Slot Length           0.430                0.440
Head Slot Width            0.120                0.130
Thread Rebate               0.181                0.185
Thread                         24TPI                 32TPI*

* = Not sure about the TPI

Both 1891 Argentine brass and steel head cleaning rods can be found by searching the WWW.  Prices range from $11 to $40.

Not sure if the diameter of the cleaning rod hole, on the front band, would allow the Argentine cleaning rod to be used, however, it might be an alternative... unless you had your heart set on a cleaning rod meeting exact specs.

I've tried screwing my 1891 Argentine brass head cleaning rod into the Krag sling-swivel screw hole but met with limited success.  I could get a few turns but any further would probably result in something being damaged.

Anyway, just a thought.
« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2018 at 1:48pm by Local Boy »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #39 - Aug 19th, 2018 at 2:10pm
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Local Boy - That's a good comparison and stop-gap idea. I imagine that it has been done.

On the rare occasions that I have seen early Krags with cleaning-rods, at gun-shows, they have sometimes had 'brass-tipped' rods. The rods, even all steel ones, have looked 'suspect'.
For a hobbyist seeking to fill a hole, it would be a lot easier to make a substitute rod with a brass-tip, than a 'flared' steel one.

IIRC - The real Krag brass-tipped rod use was short-lived and the rods are very rare.

Out of curiosity, I measured the steel rod on my (7mm) No.5 Remington Rolling-Block rifle. The Rod was about 1 inch too short, too small in diameter, and the screw thread was cut similar to a wood-screw.

(I like your 'comparison list', but, I think the Krag thread is probably 26 TPI).

If Jon's Machinist friend can make him one to Mallory's specifications, that would be pretty cool. If he could make multiple ones, at reasonable cost, he could make several people quite happy!

A 'stop-gap' rod that is too short would look odd. The 'flared part' of the rod has a visual relationship to the Krag's muzzle area.

(I suppose an 'extension' could be added to a substitute rod that is too short. FWIW - I would prefer a 'correct' replica).
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #40 - Aug 19th, 2018 at 3:18pm
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I agree wholeheartedly with BR!

I would much rather have the real deal or good reproduction.

I don't have an 1892 Krag but some day...  I just might need one of those cleaning rods that JW has manufactured!!!  Wink

BTW: I'm sure somebody already posted this but what I've read is that "no Krags were issued with the brass head cleaning rod".
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Possible un modified 1892???
Reply #41 - Aug 19th, 2018 at 4:06pm
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I don't have an early Krag and maybe never will, but, if ya got em ... flaunt em!
  
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