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How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? (Read 6500 times)

ShasVre KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2 Joined: Oct 18^th, 2018	How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Oct 18^th, 2018 at 1:24am	Print Post
	I've been trying to learn more about this fascinating piece of history, and something I haven't been able to figure out is what prevents rim lock. I don't see an interrupter like the Mosin Nagant or a large angle in the magazine like the Lee Enfield. Theories I've seen included: Cartridges have a rebated rim, which at least doesn't seem to be the case with 30 40 The rims are beveled, but given the massive sporterization, it seems unlikely that it would continue to work in so many different calibers. There's a guide, in the exploded parts diagram I looked at, I didn't see anything that would act as a guide.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #1 - Oct 18^th, 2018 at 3:06am	Print Post
	Magic? 'ShasVre' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. Actually, your question is a very good one. I don't know for sure, but, I imagine with the 'doubling back', relatively light carrier/follower spring tension, and 'speed bumps', that Olle and Erik designed into the Krag-Jorgensen feed-path, the lead cartridge is momentarily separated, lifted, and moves in front of the cartridge following it. They did work very hard on the mechanics and ergonomics of their action design. The first two 'Contracts', (Danish model 1889 and U.S. model 1892), were for rifles that utilized rimmed cartridges. When you look at the drawings, the Krag action looks like a 'recipe' for rim jams. I have never experienced a rim jam with a Krag, (or a French Berthier, for that matter). It is very easy to have rim jams with a Lee-Enfield, if you don't carefully over-lap rims in the 'charger' with each cartridge rim in front of the one below it. Then you have to orient and insert the 'charger' properly into the guides. (There is an 'upside' and a 'downside').
	« Last Edit: Oct 18^th, 2018 at 11:21pm by butlersrangers »

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Culpeper KCA Forum Member Offline Posts: 904 Location: Right Coast of Africa Joined: Mar 30^th, 2005	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #2 - Oct 18^th, 2018 at 4:38am	Print Post
	Look down on the top of the receiver with the loading gate open. The angle of attack for the cartridges is not ninety degrees from the axis of the bore's center line. It is a bit more open let us say 100 degrees. I do not know the correct angle. I thought about this, too, in the past. I took five cartridges and carefully dropped one at a time in the loading gate. Each successive cartridge was always a rim thickness behind the previous one. Even using the Parashooter/Steinmayer Deluxe Krag-Jorgensen loading charger I could not create rim lock.

	Deacon in the Church of the Mighty Krag. Member of People Eating Tasty Animals (PETA). (You need to *Login* to view media files and links)
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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #3 - Oct 18^th, 2018 at 4:48am	Print Post
	Geometry -


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ShasVre KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2 Joined: Oct 18^th, 2018	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #4 - Oct 18^th, 2018 at 4:59am	Print Post
	Thank you everyone, Parashooter, that diagram helped me a lot! It makes perfect sense now, but I wouldn't have picked up on that from the parts view. Such a remarkable design. butlersrangers Magic is exactly how I've been explaining it in my head.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #5 - Oct 18^th, 2018 at 5:03am	Print Post
	Nice explanation 'Parashooter'. Hey, didn't Pickett's Virginia Regiments form into Line of Battle, by moving "in echelon", on the third day at Gettysburg?


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #6 - Oct 18^th, 2018 at 11:10pm	Print Post
	In echelon? Oh, now I get it!


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #7 - Oct 19^th, 2018 at 5:04am	Print Post
	They're kind of in echelon!


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Ned Butts KCA Forum Admin KCA Official Member Offline Krag enthusiast! Posts: 525 Location: western catskills NY Joined: Apr 1^st, 2002 Gender:	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #8 - Oct 19^th, 2018 at 10:18am	Print Post
	Lets stay on topic, this is not the "Chit Chat" page


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madsenshooter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1079 Joined: Sep 10^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #9 - Oct 19^th, 2018 at 2:38pm	Print Post
	I've had a few rim lock, but they've always been rounds loaded to a shorter OAL, like the Hornady 150gr FMJBT seated to the crimp groove. That gets the OAL down to about 3.01". Maintaining the angle parashooter illustrated, in the chargers makes the rounds stack in there the same way.


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #10 - Oct 19^th, 2018 at 3:09pm	Print Post
	Chit chat or tit for tat, I'm confused!


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KCA Forum Admin KCA Forum Admin Offline Posts: 23 Location: United States Joined: Apr 1^st, 2002 Gender:	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #11 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 10:36pm	Print Post
	Bumping the thread to the top of the board... This thread was not removed, however there appears to have been some sort of indexing issue that moved the topic down on the board.

	Regards, KCA Forum Admin
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madsenshooter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1079 Joined: Sep 10^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #12 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 4:28pm	Print Post
	I've been using some brass that doesn't have the bevel on the rear. Makes no difference in feeding and the chance of rimlock, in my opinion. Looks to me like the only purpose it serves is to help get the extractor up over the rim.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #13 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:11pm	Print Post
	'madsenshooter' - That's an insightful observation as to the the purpose of the 'rim bevel' on .30-40 brass.


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: How does the Krag avoid rim lock/jam? Reply #14 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 6:18pm	Print Post
	I was thinking the bevel on the rim was dual purpose. If you have ammo that is shorter than GI issue can you purposely overlap the rims wrong? If so will the rounds still feed? Someone spent a lot of time working out all the details on the Krag, I bet they woke up many times with solutions to all the potential problems. The bevel is a little smaller on the Graf cases than Winchester or Remington anyone have any issues?


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