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 10 Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles (Read 236 times)
Joe L.
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Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Oct 27th, 2018 at 6:35pm
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My 98 rifle has 5th- 51- A, stamped in large block letters at the base of the rifle stock. I'm not sure if it means 5th corp, 51 regiment, company A. But all my military books have nothing that even comes close to those numbers. Neither the Spanish American War or the Philippine Insurrection have any info in those conflicts with respect to the numbers on my rifle, some have said that due the condition ( cart. of 1901 ) that it may have been a National Guard rifle kept here stateside. I don't know, # 282687 came with 1902 bayonet and the designation of a military unit of some kind has been driving me crazy!! I'm X-Navy so Army designations for weapons are truly complicated sometimes. Any help would be welcomed. Joe L.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #1 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 7:43pm
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'Joe L.': FYI - (I responded to your other post regarding the 'peep plate' on Krag sights).

If you post some clear & close-up pictures of your Krag's markings and features, it can generate more knowledgeable responses.

The U.S. Krag served, during WW1, in training camps and with U.S. Engineer units in Britain and France.

It was issued to many State Troops and National Guard units, prior to replacement, with the 1903 Springfield, around 1913-14.

I suppose "51" could be 51st Regiment or a "rifle rack #"?

"5" could be 5th Division, or a State '5th' regiment, or a rack #.

Lots of possibilities!
  
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Joe L.
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #2 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 9:34pm
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butlers rangers, I'm new to this site as it is now. Was a member when William Butts was involved, talked with him back in 2010, but things came about that distracted me from the site after having got a  1875 Rem. .44 cal wheel gun that not even Jim Supica could ID. I did join the Rem. coll. Soc.but my 1875 is just as complicated as my 98 rifle and what you brought up about the peep sight and other statements I should have remembered about the usage of the Krag up to WWI, thank you for the refresher course for my research goes on a lot for it's large and many are truly unique. I'm not really tech. savy and my kids and friends remind me of it all the time. I'll try to figure out pics but it's something I'll have to work on for I have NO clue how to do it!   Joe L.
  
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Joe L.
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #3 - Oct 27th, 2018 at 11:42pm
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battles rangers, If you wouldn't mind drifting to a Rem. mystery that has got some very knowledgeable  people stumped. If any of the Butts family move this or who ever it may be, don't worry it would put this good org. on the map for many people are stumped!! This 1875 Rem. is in .44 cal. rimfire copper case stamped on the base with a" U " ( for UMC ). But Jim Supica of the Rem. soc. said the cal. was wrong!!! It specs. out as a Henry rifle .44, but it should have a "H" on the base not a "U" and to confuse even further it has a "ROUND" nose bullet, which we all know could never be for a HENRY OR A WINCHESTER. I GOT THIS GUN FROM MY LAST WWII FRIEND AND FFL WHO PASSED AWAY 5YRS AGO. This gun came with 26 copper case rounds all having a deep green patina on one side only as if it sat on the ground for ages. The gun itself also was pitted badly on the left side only the right side in decent shape and the action is perfect, bore OK. The grips are OK even the bad left side is all there!! I know this isn't for our site but I've had this gun for many years and I always ask any body with our love of these incredible machines for help, I only wish it could talk for this gun may not look pristine but it would actually fire if I didn't think the rounds were so unique I would!!    Joe L.
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 12:01am
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No hits in The Krag Rifle Story by Mallroy for sn 282687.

Am working the logic of the numbers at this time.  Could be a dry hole.

CJC

Added:  Could be 5th Regiment, soldier/number in the rack 51, Company A.  ?  Could you post a photo? 
  

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Ned Butts
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 12:45am
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Joe, start a new thread in "Other Firearms" that is an interesting topic
  
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olderthansome
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 1:39am
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Joe L. wrote on Oct 27th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
butlers rangers, I'm new to this site as it is now. Was a member when William Butts was involved, talked with him back in 2010, but things came about that distracted me from the site after having got a  1875 Rem. .44 cal wheel gun that not even Jim Supica could ID. I did join the Rem. coll. Soc.but my 1875 is just as complicated as my 98 rifle and what you brought up about the peep sight and other statements I should have remembered about the usage of the Krag up to WWI, thank you for the refresher course for my research goes on a lot for it's large and many are truly unique. I'm not really tech. savy and my kids and friends remind me of it all the time. I'll try to figure out pics but it's something I'll have to work on for I have NO clue how to do it!   Joe L.


Actually, Union Metallic made ammo marked as “44 Henry (Flat) into the early 1900’s.  The bullets were round shouldered with flat tips.  They were for both Henry and Winchester Model 1866.  The later boxes showed both the UMC and Remington name after the merger of the two.  I have seen what appear to be near center indentations on fired cases - but not alot.  Since the 44 Remington was such a rare caliber, I suppose it’s possible that, by 1900, someone might have tried the RF rounds on the off chance that they would work since the CF was out of production.  Maybe some did work which is why you’re left with some valuable “leftovers”. 
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 5:13am
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Not my area of knowledge, but, there were .44 Henry rim-fire cartridges made with round nosed bullets and different maker head-stamps.

There were Model 1875 Remington revolvers made for rim-fire cartridges. (.46 rim-fire)

Is it possible someone just put a "rim-fire" hammer on a center-fire 1875 Remington?

(p.s. This really should be a different thread).
  
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Ned Butts
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #8 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 2:43pm
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New thread in Other firearms
  
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Joe L.
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #9 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 6:08pm
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To all you great people, all I can say is THANK YOU!! You're all the reason why I've been looking at the envelope from William Butts back in 2011 and it was always hinting at, these are the guys who will help me with my large collection of oddities that people in our hobby many are completely stumped at but don't have the time or desire to pursue!! I'm going to ask the Butts Family now if they wouldn't mind using the return address on the Butts family envelope from 2011 to send some pics that I've had to collect for a Trust I'm setting up for my girls in my will. I suppose eventually I'll get the ambition to send by technology, but for now I've been sending to people who I've known for many years. I'll always work on my Krags for these I'll always have a special place for them they are truly in NRA 98% perfect and as far as I can see original!!! But these two beauties are only a fraction of what exists here, for both my Daughters have a LTC and are very good shots as well as my neighbors who are retired police officers and we are trying too lock up this area as safe as possible. I apologize for the long winded story but this state MA sucks as well as some others!!  But history must be preserved and we're the ones to do it!! I'll try to put my messages in their proper place from now on, being new to this way of communicating please understand I'm a good student to something I'm not familiar at, let me know about the pics I'll send by mail for now and work on the other way ASAP!  Joe L.
  
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Ned Butts
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Re: Military and possibly National Guard issued rifles
Reply #10 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 11:28pm
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Emailed you the address
No need to apologize, you original question was military Krag related then things drifted off toward other firearms
  
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