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 25 1898 carbine (Read 9290 times)
JDR
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1898 carbine
Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:16am
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Just thought I'd post up my 1898 carbine. Serial number 128176. Somehow or the other, it ended up here in the UK where I eventually laid my hands on it.

Photos of it have been examined by some American Krag experts and their opinion is that it's probably genuine, albeit with the arsenal upgrades to stock and rear sights (and a Marble front blade).

The stock has a repair to it and there's no cleaning kit included (but it is 120 years old so I can forgive it that)

Hope you like it. Personally, she's my little pride and joy.
  
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Kerz
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 10:45am
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JDR
Nice looking carbine!  What a find and in the UK no less.  Good for you.  You've definitely come to the right Krag forum.  These guys are a tremendous wealth of knowledge and great resource.  A couple more pics will be of help.  The muzzle crown and sight area.  Closeup of the rear sight (looking for the "C").  Barrel length from the bolt face to muzzle.  You can use a cleaning rod down the barrel on a closed bolt, then mark and measure.
Vic
  

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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 12:19pm
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Ah, you beat me to it. I was in the middle of adding more photos and got stuck with a resizing issue and then interrupted for a few hours.

Let's see. The barrel length is exactly 22" and I seem to recall the front sight is the right distance from the muzzle end and dovetailed and brazed in place.

Hope I can post more images now, although it may have to be one at a time.
  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 12:22pm
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And a couple more:

  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #4 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 12:25pm
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I'm just about to complete a video about the carbine. The YouTube channel is JDR GUNS.

It's hard to know what to keep in and what to leave out of such a bottomless subject as the Krags, but this one focuses in purely on the one example I have in front of me.
  
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FredC
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:18pm
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Nice find! There was a US arsenal in California that began with a B, I wonder if that is their mark next to "MODEL". Not sure if I have ever seen that mark before.
  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #6 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:27pm
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FredC wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:18pm:
Nice find! There was a US arsenal in California that began with a B, I wonder if that is their mark next to "MODEL". Not sure if I have ever seen that mark before.


Thank you. I was unbelievably lucky to get it as I had no idea how rare they were when I bought it.

I think the "BNP" is a Birmingham Proof House mark, from when it was imported. That's my best guess. Possibly brought over here in the latter half of the 20th Century?
  
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FredC
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:54pm
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JDR wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:27pm:
FredC wrote on Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:18pm:
Nice find! There was a US arsenal in California that began with a B, I wonder if that is their mark next to "MODEL". Not sure if I have ever seen that mark before.


Thank you. I was unbelievably lucky to get it as I had no idea how rare they were when I bought it.

I think the "BNP" is a Birmingham Proof House mark, from when it was imported. That's my best guess. Possibly brought over here in the latter half of the 20th Century?


Very possible on the Birmingham proof mark, or it might be on every Krag made, I have been known to miss the obvious.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #8 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 3:58pm
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The U.S. arsenal was at Benicia, just NE of San Francisco. They did not apply such marks to the receiver, so they must be a British import proof. Front sight blade is not original but base looks good.  Congratulations on a nice find.
  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #9 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 4:21pm
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Yeah BNP with a crown is Birmingham. I've got that on a few of my other guns.

One question I do have is, how does the safety catch act on the mechanism? Does it disconnect, block, disable or what?
  
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Local Boy
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #10 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 4:54pm
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I believe it stands for Birmingham Nitro Proof.  The BNP proof mark is required by British law before a rifle is released to the civilian market.

Nice carbine JDR!

No hit in the "Serial Numbers of Known U.S. Krags" located in the back of Mallory's book "the Krag Rifle Story".

Your serial number places it between two 1898 rifles, however, your carbine's serial number puts it in the range of serial numbers when 1898 carbines were manufactured!

It's generally accepted that 5000 1898 carbines were produced between serial numbers 113,000 to 139,000 (circa July-September1898) according to Joe Poyer's book "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine".

Your particular carbine appears to be manufactured in September 1898.

Cheers
  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 5:08pm
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Sept 1898 - that's really interesting to know - thank you!

Some very useful pieces of info already coming together on here. So glad to have put it up.

And thank you everyone for the kind words. I initially wanted a Krag as I have a personal connection with Norway (worked as a translator from Scandinavian langs to English for many years). Then my liking for carbines took over and I decided I'd like one of those. I bought this gun about 4 years ago, but had no idea what I was holding until I got it and started checking it out.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #12 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 6:09pm
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"JDR" - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

I see nothing that questions the 'validity' of your U. S. model 1898 .30 cal. magazine carbine. Your stock and hand-guard were an update to make your carbine identical to the model 1899 carbine.

There may be a 'circled script P' on the stock behind the trigger-guard. This indicates 'function and proof' at the armory. (There is probably no 'cartouche' on the left side of the stock wrist area).

Your wood was probably put on when your rear-sight was changed to a model 1901 'Buffington' style sight. Originally, your carbine would have had a model 1896 carbine sight.

(Initially, model 1899 carbines used the 'rifle style' hand-guard, like yours. Later, the hand-guard was changed to a style with a 'hump' to protect the rear-sight).

I have never seen a Krag before with a Birmingham Nitro Proof. I imagine your Krag may have been imported to G.B. after WW2 ... or maybe, it was an American Donation (of sporting arms and optics) during the desperate days post-Dunkirk, when Britain was fighting the Axis alone! (Maybe you're suppose to send it back  Grin).

The Marble's front sight blade was a popular addition to Krag rifles and carbines in the U. S. to better adapt them for Hunting. The Marble's company was located in Gladstone, Michigan, (Northern Peninsula of my State). They were famous for Knives, Axes, gun-sights, and other hunting gear.
  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #13 - Nov 30th, 2018 at 7:33pm
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Yes, I read somewhere that the proof mark was used post 1959, but don't quote me on that. One of the things I say in the forthcoming video is that I'd love to know where it's been and whether it saw action.
  
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JDR
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Re: 1898 carbine
Reply #14 - Dec 2nd, 2018 at 11:59am
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YouTube vid of the carbine as promised:

(You need to Login to view media files and links)
  
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