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 25 Re: Mills Cartridge Belts (Read 808 times)
Jason60chev
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Re: Mills Cartridge Belts
Reply #30 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 4:49pm
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I work in Afghanistan. Will not be at Perry this year. Have not been since 2010!!!!  I am making plans to attend NEXT year.


Kerz wrote on Jan 3rd, 2019 at 9:21pm:
Jason
Some really cool pics! 
Should you be at Perry this year, you are welcome to stop by the campground and visit a spell.  I can advise my spot later on (that's assuming I can get in there again! Ha).
Vic

  
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Jason60chev
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Re: Mills Cartridge Belts
Reply #31 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 4:52pm
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Just picked up this Hulbert 30-40 single row belt. May add a buckle to it and rig up a way to mount my Ames M1906 Saber. Have seen sword hanger "Hooks". I think I can work up something very similar with some heavy gage rod.
  
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Baltimoreed
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Re: Mills Cartridge Belts
Reply #32 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 7:58pm
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Jason, What’s the difference between a Hurlbert and a Mills canvas .30-40 cartridge belt? I’ve got a double row Mills stamped belt with the same style of brass connecting hardware as your single row. Mine doesn’t have the 3 black lines though.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Mills Cartridge Belts
Reply #33 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 10:24pm
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My understanding of the subject:

Mills had a patented process for weaving the cartridge loops into the main belt. The ends of the belt have a well marked riveted brass-fitting. The fitting has a heavy hinged open "C", which hooks onto the belt for adjustment.

Competitors - Hurlburt, Spaulding, and Russell & Gilbert Loom received SAW contracts, but, sewed the cartridge loops onto the main belt.

Spaulding belts are very light weight canvass and the ends have a light leather binding, (not riveted fittings).

Hurlburt belts are heavy (like Mills).
They have three woven stripes, which I have a hunch may have aided sewing on the loops.
The Hurlburt belt-ends have a riveted brass-fitting, but, it is different from the Mills fitting.
The Hurlburt fittings lack patent markings. They have a light brass-wire 'bail', that encircles the belt and when adjusted is concealed between cartridge loops.

I am unfamiliar with the Russell & Gilbert Loom belt.

Note - It is not unusual to see Khaki belts that were dyed Blue for some type of later service. They often have faded to a blue/gray color.

Attachments: 1. Mills woven loops.  2. Detail of Jason's Hurlburt (50 loop) belt, note stitching in front of first loop. 3. Hurlburt 100 loop detail. 4. Mystery (to me) belt, with woven loops, stripes, and Hurlburt type fittings?? 5. Spaulding belt.
« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:40am by butlersrangers »  
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Jason60chev
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Re: Mills Cartridge Belts
Reply #34 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 1:20pm
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I do not claim "Guru" status when it comes to the late 1800s wb gear, but I have looked at a bunch. There were several manufacturer's of web equipment leading into the Span/Am War. With the military being in shortage of many items, other "brands" were pressed into service, as I understand. I think that the Hulbert Brothers company made a lot of commercial belts, which were pressed into service. The belt hardware \was similar across the manufacturers, as well. I've not been able to find any definitive "history" on the topic of these belts, but the three horizontal lines in the Hulbert belt was kinda a trademark. The whole world of web belts, cartridge pouches, pistol holsters and other gear is and can be an whole different area of collector concentration aside from firearms.....and, in many way, very much more interesting and often mysterious, with a wide variety of variation in equipment. A Mills or Hulbert belt is neither all correct nor all incorrect for the Krag rifle/carbine.

I chose this particular belt because I wanted a belt to go with my rifles, but do not like the double rows. I don;t re-enact, so i don;t need 100 rounds on the belt. I may add a revolver holster and maybe even a repro Dyer pouch.

[quote Mine doesn’t have the 3 black lines though. [/quote]
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Mills Cartridge Belts
Reply #35 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 4:39pm
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The correct name for the Mills belt competitor is "Hurlburt".

I believe 'Jason60chevs' recently acquired belt, with its sewn on loops, is of Hurlburt manufacture. (Shown in 'Dorsey' on page 90).

A pioneer reference work, that covers many U. S. woven belts, is "American Military Belts and Related Equipments", by R. Stephen Dorsey.
The soft cover book is very useful. (But, to me, some pages are in an odd order. At times it is confusing matching text to photos or difficult to see important details).

FWIW - On page 121, Dorsey, displays a khaki 50 loop belt that he believes is probably by Gilbert Loom.
It has the fine blue stripes and wire bails on the end-fittings, like Hurlburt belts. However, the loops are integral (woven) like a Mills belt. (This might explain the blue-dyed 'Mystery Belt' photo, that I posted).

IMHO - The 'world of web gear' has gotten more confusing and risky with all the used reproduction items showing up at shows and online. Bogus and suspect Mills buckles seem rampant on ebay and are being sold as 'originals', (and Bannerman's did 'restrikes' with original Dies, almost a century ago).

I did order a reprint of an 1893 Mills catalog today to build my 'Library'.
  
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