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 10 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety (Read 512 times)
Mark_Daiute
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #15 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:55pm
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As a point of interest your rifle was, in the eyes of the Gvt, an 1896 rifle. Once it received the changes it became an 1896 rifle. Of course, as collectors we look at as an 1892 upgrarded to 1896 config. Very nice rifle you have there.

I have Rifle 9367 also upgraded to an 1896 rifle. Mine has the small wrist stock.

There are several books out there if you are interested in further study. The most detailed and having the most bang for the buck is a book by Joseph A. Farmer. "Farmers Notes Volume 6, U.S. Military Krags", IIRC. Last I knew they were available on  Ebay. You will get documented data in this book not easily available elsewhere.
  
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Knute1
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #16 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 5:52pm
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CodyT, you got a great rifle there. Thanks for posting the pics.

Whig, all I have is the Joe Poyer book 2nd Edition. Pages 39 and 40 explain the round versus square cleaning rod fill. The rounded was used in the unissued stocks around 1896/1897. These would be mostly the "magazine rifles" 5MadFarmer written about. The model year was dropped off the designation due to having both 1892 parts and 1896 parts.

CodyT's rifle is a relatively low serial number and would have been a totally M1892 rifle and was most likely issued and used before 1896. Rifles such as that would have had the edges of the cleaning rod channel dented and chipped. So when the Armory updated these rifles to M1896 that had been in use they milled out a wider channel, which was squared off. This started happening in 1900. Below is from one of my earlier posts as I was trying to find out how my rifle came to its present configuration.

In researching the "Expenditure at the Springfield Armory " reports, the following was found:

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1897 (as seen in the post above),
    3,508 magazine rifles altered to model of 1896 with model of 1892 extractors.
    2,800 magazine rifles, model of 1892, altered to model of 1892, second pattern.

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1898,
   No mention of model of 1892 alterations.

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1899,
    Report could not be found.

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1900,
    1,588 altered to model of 1896.

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1901 (as found in Chief of Ordnance Report),
    6,123 altered to model of 1896.

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1902,
    5,420 altered to model of 1896.

Fiscal year ending 6/30/1903,
    No alterations of model of 1892 shown.

So my guess was that CodyT's rifle was returned to the Armory after 1900.

You can review my earlier post for more of this information. See the link below. It is rather lengthy as I was discovering things from other forum members and did a little research myself.

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butlersrangers
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #17 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 6:12pm
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'Knute' - Thanks for the convenient summary.

Here is a "N.Y. Times" page showing some 'long wrist' Krags being used at Camp Dix to teach sight picture.

With the bayonets 'fixed' and lack of picture clarity, it is impossible to tell if they still have cleaning-rods or have model 1896 'updates'.

Suffice it to say, Krags that started out in 1894 were still serving in 1917-18.
  
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CodyT
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #18 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 7:10pm
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Thank you all for your help and information. I will be adding a book for further study as these rifles have always fascinated me. Been collecting all sorts of military rifles since I was 15 and finally added a Krag. I hope this doesn't end up like my Garand fetish but if it does I am ok with that. I traded for this rifle as I had Beretta shotgun I couldn't hit anything with. Yet I get my Mossberg out and I am fine...go figure. Looking forward to getting some ammo loaded and trying this old war horse out. Already emailed a couple people about a safety...if anyone has one please let me know. Thanks.
  
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Whig
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #19 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 7:17pm
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Thanks, Knute. I'll pull out my Poyer book and look that up. makes sense, too, that the channels would get chipped and enlarged with use. This kind of detail makes Krag collecting a lot of fun!
  
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Knute1
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #20 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 7:43pm
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Whig,
If you have a round bottom filler in the cleaning rod channel it should have a s/n in the 19,000 to 24,000 range. If it has a square bottom it should be below this range or at the very beginning of it. (This is for rifles altered to M1896).
  
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Whig
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #21 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 8:35pm
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The 1892/96 conversion rifle I have that has the rounded channel fill (from the front of the barrel band perspective) is serial number 3474. This rifle has the curved butt plate, 3 holes and oil recess drilled and still has the 1892 bolt. It does have the newer side plate and the hold open notch and pin, of course. It has the rounded muzzle and the 1896 rifle sight.

So much for absolute details with Krags!
  
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Knute1
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #22 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 8:57pm
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Does it have a dated cartouche on the stock? Probably won't prove anything, anyway. Of course there are other possibilities. I will look back, but I believe I read a statement in an ordnance report that they were upgrading rifles on hand in fiscal year ending 6/30/97, not just unissued ones. There could be more possibilities than I can imagine, but your rifle may have been at the armory at the time the alterations were being made during this time period. Rifles were being brought in for repairs.
Far-fetched? I'll look for more definitive info.
« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2019 at 10:45pm by Knute1 »  
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Re: 1895 Dated Krag...missing safety
Reply #23 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 11:57pm
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It's an older, nice condition, dark stock that has seen arsenal refub. No cartouche is visible but it is double proof stamped. It does have the older thin wrist. I would say it's original to this rifle but has been sanded and refurbed by S.A.

Most of the time we are just guessing with these things, though.

Thanks for checking and letting me know. I'll go back to the books and see what i can find.
  
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