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 25 Long Range Chances (Read 1875 times)
Capt. Frank
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #15 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:09pm
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A very knowledgeable F class shooter told me yesterday, that the ELD bullets are extremely good, but seating depth is critical, affecting accuracy, find the sweet spot and they will make one hole in your target. I have only used them in a Swiss Mauser 6.5x55, so far, but am getting 1/2 minute results.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #16 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:56pm
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Looking at the ELD on Hornady's website.  It appears they've gone to a form that is less of a secant ogive bullet than what Hornady bullets normally are.  I've been doing some comparision across different calibers, secant ogive vs tangent.  Secant ogive bullets appear to me to more accurate.  It also seems to me they group higher and to the left of the POI of tangent ogive bullets of the same or similar weight, with similar loads.  Oddly, the Sierra Tipped Matchkings in 30 caliber are now more of a secant ogive design. My K31 loves the 168gr seated to just touch the rifling, but it's the only 30 caliber I have wherein it will do that.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #17 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 9:32pm
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Fortunately, since the long range matches are slow-fire (single shot) only... I won't have to worry about working through the magazine.  Therefore, I can seat the bullets out a little to engage the rifling.
  
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Capt. Frank
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #18 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 2:43pm
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I just talked to a very knowledgeable F class competitor, he said the ELD match bullets have given him excellent results, but seating depth is critical.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #19 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 12:07am
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Capt. Frank wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 2:43pm:
I just talked to a very knowledgeable F class competitor, he said the ELD match bullets have given him excellent results, but seating depth is critical.


Did he happen to say what his OAL is?  I could use that as a jumping off point.
  
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Capt. Frank
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #20 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:58pm
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No, but it is different for each rifle, your idea about contacting the rifling may be good place to start. In my 6.5x55, I used Hornady's seating depth, and got good results.
  
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blfrankjr
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #21 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:14pm
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As others have stated staying supersonic is the critical part. I use to shoot LR a good bit with an M1A and 175 SMKs so they will perform.
If you need zeros I always found the "thermometer" target works very well not only for elevation but to make sure your windage tracks as the sight goes up. You don't want to be that guy who fires immediately as they give the command so he can gauge his windage by which target goes down. If you need it I can get the official name of the target.
I would not be surprised if you didn't have to file some on your front sight to get the elevation you need.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #22 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 11:01pm
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Good luck on the elevation with that 'A3! (Or do you have an aftermarket rear sight on it?)
                        
You'll need a "come-up" of about 35 MOA from 200 to 1000 with MatchKing or A-Max at ~2650fps - and the issue 'A3 sight only goes up some 29 MOA from 200 to the 800 max graduation. Here's a breakdown from engineer and distinguished rifleman Bob S. - (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Image below shows calculated ballistics for the 175 MK at 2650 fps. "Clicks" are 1 MOA.
  
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Capt. Frank
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #23 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 1:57pm
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The Bridgeville Rifle and Pistol Club is installing a large gong at 1000 yards. All match shooters will have to hit the gong, before they can shoot the electronic targets. This to prevent damage to the targets, by someone who does not have a correct 1000 yard zero.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #24 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 9:49pm
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My rear sight is the standard 03A3 rear sight.  In order to shoot in a CMP match "As Issued", it can't be altered. 

It sounds like I have a butt-ton of homework to do!  I may have to alter my POA to compensate.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #25 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:39pm
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psteinmayer wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 9:49pm:
My rear sight is the standard 03A3 rear sight.  In order to shoot in a CMP match "As Issued", it can't be altered. . .

But the CMP Long Range Matches aren't "as-issued". (You're shooting a Krag in the as-issued matches, right?)

Following text is copied from the 2019 Long Range Schedule -

2019 National Long Range Match Schedule
Monday, 5 August
9:00AM        Viale Memorial Match         Viale Range
Unlimited Sighting Shots & 20 Record Shots in 30 minutes @ 1000 Yards
Match Rifle/ Iron Sights, Service Rifle or Palma Rifle
Critchfield Memorial Match
Unlimited Sighting Shots & 20 Record Shots in 30 minutes @ 1000 Yards
Match Rifle/ Iron Sights, Service Rifle or Palma Rifle

Tuesday, 6 August
9:00AM        Kerr Memorial Match          Viale Range
Unlimited Sighting Shots & 20 Record Shots in 30 minutes @ 1000 Yards
Match Rifle/Any Sights, Service Rifle or Palma Rifle
Henry Memorial Match
Unlimited Sighting Shots & 20 Record Shots in 30 minutes @ 1000 Yards
Match Rifle/ Any Sights, Service Rifle or Palma Rifle

And from the 2019 Highpower Competition Rules -

5.10 CMP Long Range Courses
The CMP Long Range Courses are CMP highpower rifle events that are  conducted during  the  National  Matches  and  may  be  conducted  in  other CMP-sanctioned competitions. Competitors may use the Service Rifle (Rules 4.1.1, 4.1.3, 4.1.4), Alternative Rifle (Rule 4.1.2),  Match Rifle (Rule 4.1.5)  and the Long Range Service Rifle (Rule 4.1.6).
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #26 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 4:00pm
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Actually, I'm shooting my Krag in the Roosevelt Match, my K-31 in Vintage, and my 1903A3 in the Springfield Match... all are As Issued.  Since I only have one 03A3, I would be altering the rifle and it would no longer be eligible for the Springfield Match, unless I alter it after the match.  The bottom line is I don't really want to have to change it, and I only own one.  So I may have to set the rear sight for a different elevation to be on point at 1000 yards, OR... find my point of aim for 1000 yards and treat it like Kentucky Windage (aim for a point above the bullseye).
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #27 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 4:40pm
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Unlimited sighters, bring lots of rounds!  LOL!  I've always paid attention to Bob S info, you do have a lot of things to think about Paul.  Seating your bullets out to the rifling is good, gives one a bit more room for the powder you'll need to get the velocity.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #28 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:06pm
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psteinmayer wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 4:00pm:
Actually, I'm shooting my Krag in the Roosevelt Match, my K-31 in Vintage, and my 1903A3 in the Springfield Match . . . So I may have to set the rear sight for a different elevation to be on point at 1000 yards, OR... find my point of aim for 1000 yards and treat it like Kentucky Windage (aim for a point above the bullseye). 

I thought the Springfield/Vintage match was a combined event (running on two days). Do they let you register twice (once for each day)?

Anyway, since you'd need to aim some 6-feet high to hit the 1000-yard bull and there ain't nothing up there but sky, eagles, and Lake Erie, you might as well cut another front blade short enough to get you in the center with your preferred hold.

Center hold: +6.5 MOA x .008" = .051" shorter (presuming issue blade prints center at 200 yard setting and range)
6:00 hold: +2.1 MOA for 22" radius of aiming black x .008" = .017": Total .068" shorter
Frame hold: +3.4 MOA for half of 6' frame height x .008 = .027": Total .078" shorter.

You can check the blade at 100 yards by setting the elevation to 800 and looking for a group 39.6" above center bull - or 74.6 at 200 (presuming a MV near 2650 fps and BC near .500. Scrounge a chronograph!). If using a 6:00 hold, use an 8.8" aiming black to emulate the size of the 44" LR target black at 1000 yards.  Leave the blade a bit tall and bring a file to the range for final adjustment. 

Once that short blade is finalized, see where she hits at the 200-yard setting and adjust your hold for the Springfield Match - or bring the original blade, a hammer, and a pin punch to Perry so you can swap out there.

Long Range is a different animal - fun but frustrating!
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2019 at 4:57am by Parashooter »  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #29 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 10:27pm
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Some more Bob S 03A3 long range info I ran across.  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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