Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
 10 Western 29 brass (Read 9368 times)
PaulK
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 3
Location: Montana
Joined: Feb 17th, 2019
Gender: Male
Western 29 brass
Mar 3rd, 2019 at 7:13pm
Print Post  
Bought a bag of Krag  brass at a gunshow for $5. Probably close to 100 rds. in it.
All are headstamped "WESTERN 29"
Anyone heard of that?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2391
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #1 - Mar 3rd, 2019 at 10:47pm
Print Post  
That's a new one.  I've seen Western brass, but not with a number.  Sounds somewhat old.  I'd inspect carefully and use with discretion.  I have some older Remington brass marked REM-USA, and old Winchester brass marked Super Speed which I occasionally use with lower pressure cast loads.  Just gotta be careful.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
PaulK
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 3
Location: Montana
Joined: Feb 17th, 2019
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #2 - Mar 4th, 2019 at 1:09am
Print Post  
I'll do that prior to any reloading.  Always cautious about gunshow brass in a bag.  Figured for $5, may get a few usable.
Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #3 - Mar 4th, 2019 at 1:33am
Print Post  
Likely, Western brass originally loaded in 1929. Company was purchased by Winchester and became Winchester-Western.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2391
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #4 - Mar 4th, 2019 at 10:55pm
Print Post  
Good call Chuck.  I agree - probably 1929.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
RichWIS
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 56
Location: Corbin KY
Joined: Jan 9th, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #5 - Mar 5th, 2019 at 2:23pm
Print Post  
If 1929 vintage suggest you anneal, age embrittlement is likely on brass of that old.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #6 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:33pm
Print Post  
Oops, made my third mistake of the year!

Western Cartridge Company purchased the financially troubled Winchester Repeating Arms Co. in 1931, when the gun maker went into receivership. The merged companies became Winchester-Western.

"Western" component eventually became "Olin".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PaulK
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 3
Location: Montana
Joined: Feb 17th, 2019
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #7 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 10:00pm
Print Post  
Update on Western 29 brass:
They will not accept large rifle primers!!
Had to try large pistol.  No issues. We'll see at the range.
Guess I was expecting too much for $5. LOL
Good thing I only loaded 20.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2019 at 12:30am
Print Post  
Warning:

At the least, I would test some of your pistol primers, by 'firing' in otherwise empty cartridge cases, to make sure your Krag's firing pin does not penetrate the thinner cup of the pistol primers.

For good reason, there are pistol primers and there are rifle primers. They are different, especially, in regard to strength of metal 'cup'.
Most rifle firing-pins strike harder than pistol firing-pins. Also, the Krag rifle cartridge will develop 2 to 4 times the pressure of some pistol cartridges.

IMHO - Something is wrong.

Maybe the 'Western 29' cases had their primers 'crimped' in place.

Many U. S. military rifle cartridge cases utilized a primer crimp. This needs to be removed from the primer-pocket in order to seat a 'fresh' Large-Rifle Primer.
This is done with, (either swagging or cutting), primer pocket tools.

(A couple of primer-pocket tools that will remove 'crimp' - cost about $14 online):

« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2019 at 4:22pm by butlersrangers »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 1324
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2019 at 10:49am
Print Post  
Heck, you might get away with small pistol (CCI 550) or small rifle (CCI 450) magnum primers. Would fire hotter and probably give good ignition of your powder. Try a few to test.

If not, might be better to scrap them and look for real Krag brass.

I'd have probably made the same mistake. I've thrown out .45 brass with small primer holes. Trash.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2391
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #10 - Apr 23rd, 2019 at 12:44pm
Print Post  
I have a whole box of Fiocchi .45 ACP with small pistol primers.  Never reloaded em, and probably never will.

I suspect as Butlersrangers stated, the primer pockets on those Western 29 cases were crimped.  I wouldn't use the pistol primers either.  I would just abandon them and order some Hornady or GRAF brass instead.  You might get away with shooting them, but given the age and primer issue, you'd be taking unnecessary chances... and (much) better brass is available and plentiful!  FWIW, Pistol and Rifle primers are different sizes for a reason.

If you really want to get confused, with Berdan primers, there are no less than 9 different sizes!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #11 - Apr 23rd, 2019 at 6:50pm
Print Post  
Are the large rifle and large pistol primers the same size? If so, maybe the primer was not aligned the first time the OP tried to insert them. I have mikes in the shop but the primers are in the work room by the house so I can not check them now.
I have 2 kinds of primer tools and with both you can occasionally try to put a primer in and it does not go till you figure out what is wrong.
Others have already mentioned the danger of using pistol primers in a rifle and those dangers are real. A blown primer may not run a rifle but it is hard on the bolt and could ruin your eyes.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #12 - Apr 23rd, 2019 at 7:03pm
Print Post  
Diameter of Large-Rifle and Large-Pistol Primers is the same. Cup strength is not!

'Psteinmayer' sums up Brass situation, nicely.

Ninety Year Old Brass is very risky and brittle. Reloading it is false economy!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Parashooter
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Kragmudgeon

Posts: 514
Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 4th, 2010
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #13 - Apr 23rd, 2019 at 8:33pm
Print Post  
While small pistol and rifle primers share external dimensions, large pistol primers (and pockets for them) are significantly shorter than large rifle. Large pistol primers are also allowed a slightly smaller diameter. See SAAMI chart below for some nominal dimensions -

(You need to Login to view media files and links)

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Western 29 brass
Reply #14 - Apr 24th, 2019 at 2:06pm
Print Post  
Thanks,  Parashooter. You use the same bushings for large pistol and large rifle in the priming tools so I was sure they were close on the OD. As mentioned they are not designed for the same pressure so that is one issue.

Now knowing the 2 types of primers are so close and there is a slight overlap in tolerances I will never have the 2 types out on the bench at the same time to avoid any mix ups.

If the particular brand or lot of pistol primer is too short, that could lead to a hang fire. Opening the bolt 20 seconds later when it goes off would be catastrophic. 
Another thing not mentioned is old GI brass may have had corrosive or mercuric primers. Brass that is cleaned right after firing may prevent corrosive damage. If its initial firing was done 50 years ago and put away dirty, who knows what damage was done.

All that said I have used 40s GI 30/06 brass for really reduced loads and not had issues with only neck sizing. That brass was used first by my father so he may have cleaned after the initial firing.

The $5.00 dollar brass is not really a bad deal for putting it in a display case.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint