Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
 10 Carbine Puzzle (Read 7562 times)
Ned Butts
KCA Forum Admin
KCA Official Member
*****
Offline


Krag enthusiast!

Posts: 525
Location: western catskills NY
Joined: Apr 1st, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #15 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 6:30pm
Print Post  
Another observation on the serial number. Based on the information at hand (I don't have access to all of my references) that serial number is almost 8,000 out of the known range for the first run of carbines which would make the "first in last out" "nonlinear" assembly explanation an extreme, extreme reach.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jwagar
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 8
Joined: Mar 8th, 2019
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #16 - Apr 8th, 2019 at 9:29pm
Print Post  
I've found some great information in the book "Arsenal of Freedom", page 75, from the fiscal year 1896 report. Six carbines were used to test sights, the serial numbers listed in the results table are: 11803, 11804, 15787, 15903, 15969, and 21451. When I inquired through the Springfield Research Service for information on my carbine with serial number 16720, they responded that they had no information on my particular serial number, the closest they had records for was a carbine with serial number 16968. I've read that the Springfield Armory would have stockpiles of parts, which they would draw from to assemble rifles & carbines, so that would explain how the serial numbers could jump around. The 1898 cartouche would make sense for when they upgraded it with the 1898 bolt.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cquickel
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Lover

Posts: 77
Location: Arkansas
Joined: Jan 11th, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #17 - Feb 14th, 2020 at 8:21pm
Print Post  
You mind if I add your rifle to the KCA serial number database?
  

Curt Quickel
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jwagar
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 8
Joined: Mar 8th, 2019
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #18 - Feb 18th, 2020 at 7:35pm
Print Post  
I don't mind at all if you add my carbine serial number to the KCA data base, thank you.

It's been a while since I've checked-in. I'm hitting the books again and compiling as much detail as I can to, at the very least, prove that it's possible that this carbine is authentic, and not a parts gun. If along the way, I wind up proving that it is a parts gun, I'll have learned a great deal from the research effort.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dick Hosmer
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Collector of Springfield
Arms, 1865-1915

Posts: 1862
Location: Northern California
Joined: Nov 20th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #19 - Feb 18th, 2020 at 8:14pm
Print Post  
As far as I know, the two 1892s, and the six carbines listed by Brophy as sight test guns were the ONLY carbines made up before production started, in 1895, at around 24600. I have never seen documented evidence as to how the six receivers were marked (my guess would be "1894") nor their whereabouts, if any of them still exist.

As to 16720, I'd have to assume it began life as a rifle, and was later modified by some previous owner. The SRS reference to 16968 is puzzling, as Frank tried his level best to only include "real" specimens in his listings - thus he must have felt it had some validity.

The presence of an 1898 bolt in an early receiver, while it certainly would fit, is not indicative of usual SA practice.

I just re-read the earlier posts in this thread and nothing seems to have changed - very nice-looking piece, but highly unlikely to be "as made by SA".
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
olderthansome
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 131
Location: Michigan
Joined: Mar 10th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #20 - Feb 19th, 2020 at 7:07pm
Print Post  
Dick Hosmer wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
  There are some things that, in my opinion, SA would not have done: 98 bolt in "96" receiver, rifle sight on a carbine, etc. Sorry, but that's my take.

  When you find your copy of Mallory 2, check page 78, right column under topic of Major Variations:  "Most Model 1896 carbines will be found with a Model 1896 rifle sight, rather than a carbine sight; and although there is a good supply of Krag spare parts, Model 1896 carbine rear sights are practically unobtainable.  No reason has been found in the Ordnance records for this situation."   Then check Brophy, page 54: "It is likely, though, that during the late years of the Krag, the Model 1898 and Model 1901 carbine rear sights were used as replacements.  Records do not indicate that rifle sights were ever used on carbines."  This would agree with you and some of us as well.

I don't have access to Mr. Farmer's work, but I would be interested to see if the above two statements are referencing the same record or if there is yet another possible explanation. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 1324
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Carbine Puzzle
Reply #21 - Feb 19th, 2020 at 8:40pm
Print Post  
Springfield Armory was so anal about ballistics and trajectory graphs developed for their sights that I can't imagine they would ever sanction a rifle rear sight on a carbine. They would have just manufactured more carbine ladders or sights altogether if they were running out, I'd think!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint