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 10 Is this a sporter? (Read 4054 times)
Bob W.
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Is this a sporter?
May 20th, 2019 at 10:08pm
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Hello, all: This has a 20" barrel and nicely crowned muzzle but no front sight and it looks like the rear sight was removed and filled but never replaced. There are no markings on the barrel -- should there be? The blue is nice but not on the buttplate. So do you think somebody started to sporterize it and quit?
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #1 - May 20th, 2019 at 10:21pm
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Sling rings and a pin at the front band.  I'm thinkin' yep. Is there a place near the muzzle where it looks like a sight was removed?

Do ya have a pic of the right front of the stock at the front band?

But it is purty.


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psteinmayer
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #2 - May 20th, 2019 at 11:03pm
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looks like a cut down rifle stock with a carbine handguard (for the 1901 rear sight).  The barrel is quite short at 20 inches, and was probably cut that short to make it easier for hunting in heavy brush.  The lack of a front or rear sight makes me think they intended to add a scope at some time.  It's also been re-blued.  Not bad looking... but definitely a cutdown sporter!
  
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Bob W.
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #3 - May 21st, 2019 at 3:03pm
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Here are pics of the right front of the forestock and handguard.
If there was a front sight, it was cut off when the barrel was shortened.
Three quick questions:
1) So this probably started life as a rifle before being cut down?
2) Should I spend the time and money finding and replacing proper sights if it already is too short and has the wrong handguard?
3) Or should I continue the sporter process and make it into a shooter with new modern sights?
I hate to continue the ruination of a classic, but I'd prefer for it to have a new home where it is appreciated. But I'm a 1911 fan and am not much into martial long arms.
Thanks!
3)
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #4 - May 21st, 2019 at 4:00pm
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Bob W. wrote on May 21st, 2019 at 3:03pm:
Here are pics of the right front of the forestock and handguard.
If there was a front sight, it was cut off when the barrel was shortened.
Three quick questions:
1) So this probably started life as a rifle before being cut down?
2) Should I spend the time and money finding and replacing proper sights if it already is too short and has the wrong handguard?
3) Or should I continue the sporter process and make it into a shooter with new modern sights?
I hate to continue the ruination of a classic, but I'd prefer for it to have a new home where it is appreciated. But I'm a 1911 fan and am not much into martial long arms.
Thanks!
3)



1.  Most likely yes

2.  That's the great news.  The guy cut down the rifle to 20 inches (measured from a closed bolt face).  All you have to do is pay a good gunsmith to mount a repro front sight post to the barrel and remove the rear sight plug screws and you are half way to a put together near-carbine.  A lot of guys wish they had that handguard for their real carbines.  Rear rifle sights are fairly common because opportunist #$%^^%$# are always breaking down krags to sell the parts at a profit.

3.  Hell NO!  (but that is just one guy's opinion and I am unanimous in that)


  

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FredC
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #5 - May 21st, 2019 at 4:19pm
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Just some thoughts:
1 the carbine hand guard could be quite valuable especially if it has not been molested
2with a cut down stock, barrel and blued receiver you do not have anything to work with in trying to do a restoration
3 as far as ruining a classic, there are many near originals out there, by continuing the sporterizing of this one you are not diminishing collectables or sporters
4 the gun looks very nice perhaps the hand guard could be sold to finance sights

I think I would keep it for a while, handle it keep it clean and oiled for a while. If it does not grow on you maybe selling it is the best plan. I do not need another sporter but if that one was in my closet in a couple of weeks I would be devising a plan to finish it. Krags are just beautiful in there own way and the smoothness of the action is legendary.
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #6 - May 21st, 2019 at 5:00pm
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Hi Bob W,

If you you have the rear sight holes unplugged than here's another option.

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Personally I'm more of a traditionalist but if it's a sporter or kinda sporter than the Kraghaus rail system is nice alternative.

For the most part, no harm is done to the rifle and you have various sighting options to pursue.

Otherwise, I like Culpeppers option of having a repro front sight installed and purchasing a 1901 rifle rear sight.

BTW: Going by Poyer's book 'The American Krag Rifle and Carbine', your Krag was produced between Jul-Aug 1900.
  
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Bob W.
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #7 - May 22nd, 2019 at 4:38am
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Thanks, guys, for all the info. I like the kraghaus rail idea and it's nice to know that's an option. But I've got too many other guns I never get to shoot -- so I'm still on the fence about keeping it.
So that leaves me with one more question: For the Krag novice, could somebody please explain why the 1901 handguard is so important?
I guess I could sell the handguard and replace it with the correct 1898 guard ...
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #8 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:13am
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I call dibs on the handguard!

It's not that they are rare, which they are, but it is more rifles are out there without handguards.  And if you're a Krag man or Krag woman you would want a carbine or rifle with a handguard.  Any thing else is uncivilized.  Pass the mustard.

Many handguards have been removed and thrown away when guys started to sporterize the guns over the last one hundred and twenty-five years.  Many handguards have been broken by guys prying the handguards off the barrels instead of the correct way of removing the rear sight by sliding the handguard all the way down to the front sight and then carefully lifting it off.  And many just broke with the wood grain from being banged around willy-nilly.

  

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psteinmayer
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #9 - May 22nd, 2019 at 11:02am
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Bob W. wrote on May 22nd, 2019 at 4:38am:
Thanks, guys, for all the info. I like the kraghaus rail idea and it's nice to know that's an option. But I've got too many other guns I never get to shoot -- so I'm still on the fence about keeping it.
So that leaves me with one more question: For the Krag novice, could somebody please explain why the 1901 handguard is so important?
I guess I could sell the handguard and replace it with the correct 1898 guard ...


Installing a Kraghaus rail would require the handguard to be removed.  Although the short rail would most likely fit in the opening, you would need to modify it for the scope rings to fit. 

It's not that the 1901 hand guards are rare... it's that you have a 1901 Carbine hand guard, and those are always sought after!  If a hand guard is not removed in the correct way, as Culpeper stated, then it'll crack... and you'd be shocked at how many try and snap 'em off anyway, destroying theirs in the process!  Another good trick is to install a quarter and nickle in the clips to help them retain their form while the hand guard is removed.

Now... here's my opinion:  I'd keep it, remove the hand guard (sell it to someone with a true carbine and make their decade!).
Install a Kraghaus rail and LER scope, or a rear sight and an aftermarket front sight... and enjoy the hell out of it.  You'll find that there just isn't another rifle out there that is smoother in operation, and shoots better than a Krag!!!  Sporter's have a place in the world too (I have one) and they can be quite fun... and very useful for hunting.  You won't be further destroying any collector value, so there's no reason to not install the scope.  I think as others have said, you find this one growing on you, and Krags have a tendency to multiply too!
  
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Bob W.
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2019 at 7:22pm
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OK, so I'm leaning towards carefully removing and replacing the 1901 hand guard and then having a gunsmith install period front and rear sights. Or maybe a Kraghaus rail for a red dot.
Can I just leave the hand guard off, or do I need wood on top of the barrel so the band fits well?
The plugged holes are 2.375 inches center-to-center (or thereabouts) so is that an 1898 rear sight or a 1901?

  
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Culpeper
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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #11 - May 22nd, 2019 at 9:30pm
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You should study the pictures of the carbines.  No, you do not have to have the upper guard for the gun to work.  I have several that are missing their hand guards.

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Carbines had a spring to hold the band on to the barrel.  Rifles had a brass pin. The rifle band will hold without the upper guard because it is a clamp affair if I recall.

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Also look at the pics of the hand guards.  You will see the screw holes are standardized but the sights come in "forward" designs like the 1901 or "rearward" like the 1898s and 1902s or a "neutral" such as the 92 and 96 that are the same length as the base.

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Re: Is this a sporter?
Reply #12 - May 22nd, 2019 at 9:53pm
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You do not need the hand guard!  The barrel band doesn't clamp on the hand guard, so there's no problem there.

All krag sights use the same screw hole locations... and since it's a sporter, you can use the rear sight that you prefer and not worry about fitting a handguard.

Bear in mind, a reproduction front sight post is available, however they require the barrel to be dovetailed and brazed.  You're better off using an aftermarket ramp front sight or a 1903 Springfield banded front sight... or if you go with the Kraghaus and Red Dot, just forgo the front sight!
  
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