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UnDated Bayonets (Read 5467 times)

Whig KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1324 Location: Balt MD Joined: Sep 24^th, 2016 Gender:	UnDated Bayonets May 27^th, 2019 at 11:11pm	Print Post
	I have a few nice Krag bayonets but am not real knowledgeable about some of the details about them historically. I have seen a few listings on ebay for "undated" Krag bayonets. Is there such a thing officially or have these just been altered or had the date polished off? Some have claimed that they are rare. I don't believe that to be true but thought I'd ask. I think that there are a couple on ebay right now. Thanks for the input.


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #1 - May 28^th, 2019 at 12:17am	Print Post
	Mistaken ID on the part of the seller? I believe all US Krag bayonets were dated, but NOT serialed, which those others likely DO have.


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Whig KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1324 Location: Balt MD Joined: Sep 24^th, 2016 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #2 - May 28^th, 2019 at 1:30am	Print Post
	I looked at a couple on ebay now and they are just rusted beyond recognition where the date stamp should be. I think you're right- just mistaken (or misleading) labeling by seller.


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #3 - May 28^th, 2019 at 1:25pm	Print Post
	Sadly... there are some very unscrupulous sellers who will claim something is rare in the hopes of squeezing the unsuspecting buyer of way more money than the item is actually worth! Unfortunately, integrity is gone the way of the Dodo for many (far too many if you ask me) people.


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Whig KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1324 Location: Balt MD Joined: Sep 24^th, 2016 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #4 - May 28^th, 2019 at 1:36pm	Print Post
	We've all seen those kind of sellers before!!


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Local Boy KCA Forum Member KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 462 Location: Mat-Su Valley, Alaska Joined: Sep 24^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #5 - May 28^th, 2019 at 4:38pm	Print Post
	Hi Whig, Recently I've seen a 'nice shiny' Krag bayonet on EBay listed as having no date which kind of piqued my interest about undated bayonets. Checked my usual resources and can't find anything about undated Krag bayonets. Most of my reference resources indicate that Krag bayonets will have the US and Date on the blade ricasso. However, maybe a few slipped out the Springfield Armory back door without being stamped.


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #6 - May 28^th, 2019 at 5:00pm	Print Post
	There is a European bayonet (Swiss?) that is almost a dead ringer for a Krag. To this day, at a show, if the lighting is bad, or the case is a bit jumbled, and especially if there is no scabbard, I sometimes have to stop and take a second look.


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olderthansome KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 131 Location: Michigan Joined: Mar 10^th, 2013 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #7 - May 28^th, 2019 at 5:13pm	Print Post
	That would probably be the Schmidt Rubin bayonet - yes, Dick, it's Swiss. Any serial number would be the first giveaway and the ratio of the pummel (?) to wood of the handle is another. Also, the front of the pommel is at a slight angle to the wood - not at 90 degrees like the Krag. Most of the first year of the Krags (1894) were struck a little on the light and small side, but the US was usually pretty strong. The scabbards of the Krags were significantly different than the Swiss. As Dick said, that will be a giveaway if there is a scabbard present.


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Local Boy KCA Forum Member KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 462 Location: Mat-Su Valley, Alaska Joined: Sep 24^th, 2015 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #8 - May 28^th, 2019 at 5:29pm	Print Post
	Yup, a serial numbered Krag look-a-like would be a dead give away as to 'not being a Krag bayonet.' Here's one of my go to places for bayonet referencing called 'World Bayonets': (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) You'll also find a short dissertation about the 'M1892 Krag bayonet in Picket Pin Scabbard' that Dick loves soooo much!


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Whig KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1324 Location: Balt MD Joined: Sep 24^th, 2016 Gender:	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #9 - May 28^th, 2019 at 6:00pm	Print Post
	Thanks for the info and the references. Always a great help to get good answers when needed!


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #10 - May 28^th, 2019 at 6:29pm	Print Post
	It is documented in early U.S. Chief of Ordnance - 'Annual Reports' that the bayonet for the U.S. Krag was copied from the contemporary Swiss, Schmidt-Rubin, bayonet, (for use with the Swiss model 1889 rifle). The blade of the later, Swiss model K-31 bayonet, had a different two edged - 'dagger' profile. IMHO, the Swiss may have borrowed the K-31 blade profile from the British Pattern 1888 bayonet, for the Lee-Metford & Lee-Enfield. The K-31 bayonet grip remained like the earlier Swiss models. (As a point of interest, In the early 1900's, when the British adopted the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield, they initially had a short bayonet. This was the Pattern 1903. It retained the Pattern 1888 blade, but, had a new style of grip. Later, they adopted the longer Pattern 1907 bayonet, which was copied from the Japanese Arisaka bayonet). Attached Photo (top-bottom): Krag, K-31, Lee-Metford Pattern 1888 bayonets.


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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #11 - May 28^th, 2019 at 11:26pm	Print Post
	That "K31" bayonet is also known as the "model 1918". Here's a comparison montage of a late US Krag bayonet to the Swiss 1889. (Early US production featured flush-ground rivets like the Swiss.) -


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: UnDated Bayonets Reply #12 - May 29^th, 2019 at 2:17am	Print Post
	Nice comparison photographs - Thanks, Parashooter.


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