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 10 Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI (Read 6010 times)
Knute1
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Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Jun 19th, 2019 at 1:42am
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The link below is the "History of the Twelfth Engineers, US Army". It reads that "arms and equipment issued were the old type , used in the Spanish-American War, including the Krag-Jorgensen rifle."  Click on the Page 8 >> in blue and the entire book will show up.

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rgensen+train&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiquYz6sfTiAhUMvKwKHcgpDYA4WhDoAQgsMAE#v=snip
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 4:23am
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'Knute' - Thanks for posting.

This 12th Engineers' History gives a good description of events, in London, on 8/15/1917.

We have pondered attached photo for years.

Pages 14-20, in this 'History', describe the 'Review' in London and the British Public's reaction to seeing American troops joining the Conflict.

(note "12th U.S." on canteen cover).
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2019 at 1:33pm by butlersrangers »  
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Culpeper
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 5:43am
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Another copy at Archive.org

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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 10:39am
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Great stuff!  Thanks for posting.  I know that my Krag is a WW1 veteran too!
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 3:00pm
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psteinmayer wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 10:39am:
...  I know that my Krag is a WW1 veteran too!


Yeah?  Well my Krag can beat up your Krag!


  

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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 9:35pm
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Culpeper wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
psteinmayer wrote on Jun 19th, 2019 at 10:39am:
...  I know that my Krag is a WW1 veteran too!


Yeah?  Well my Krag can beat up your Krag!


Well... you'll have to come to Perry to find out, Bub!
  
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 10:43pm
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Pretty stacks of rifles and accoutrements. Looks like another U.S. uniform that would work with my Krag. A winter uniform. Neat.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2019 at 11:00pm
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Can you imagine being the first foreign army to march through London in centuries? Mostly women and children looking on as a lot of able bodied men from England were in the war or had already paid the ultimate sacrifice. Old women crying at the sight and thinking of their husbands and sons in war. Young women along the way starving for male attention as these fine young men from another country paraded before them, instructed to look duty-bound, representing the US. It was said that they were "Solemn Looking Bloaks". I think that was meant in a most endearing way.
  
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #8 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 2:00am
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FWIW - When I look at this photograph of the 12th Engineers, it appears to me that some of the men appear to be Black-Americans.

I am likely very wrong. The U.S. Army was segregated until the Korean War.

During WW1, U.S. Black Troops fought under French Command, (with Adrian helmets and Berthier rifles), in order to get into combat.

If the 12th Engineers had some integration of races, that would indeed be remarkable for the times.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #9 - Jun 20th, 2019 at 10:54am
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I thought the same thing, also. But it was more likely that African-Americans would be in the military during the Spanish-American war than during WWI. This is due to President Wilson's policies where the military took some steps backwards in regards to this. But it is still possible and would indeed be remarkable if there were African-Americans in the 12th.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #10 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 2:27am
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Here is an account of African-American troops in the Spanish-American war starting on page 226.

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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #11 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 3:42am
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FWIW - From what I've read, Black units, "Immunes", were heavily utilized in combat, during the SAW and Philippine Insurrection campaigns, under the false belief that Black men would be less susceptible to Tropical Diseases than White Troops.

Some of the transport ships, going to Cuba, had 'color lines' painted on the Decks to segregate the Races. This was irksome to some (Regular) White and Black Regiments with a history of serving together on friendly terms.

During WW1, there was an apparent policy to deny Black Units a combat role and the intention to relegate Black Soldiers to transport and support roles.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #12 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 2:50am
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To improve the record, the 14th and 16th Engineers were apparently issued Krag Jorgensens in WWI along with the 12th. Below is a link to the history of the 14th. On page 10 the rifle was referred to as "the old .303 used in the Spanish war". It does not appear that it describes the Krag properly, but what else would it be? Some of the pictures appear to be the same as used in the history of the 12th.

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my&f=false

The book on the history of the 16th was written in 1939 and falls under copyright. But here is a snippet view. It appears that they didn't have their Krags for long.

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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #13 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 6:40am
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Knute1, if I might beg a favor? You seem to be deeply into document research. I have searched long and hard for any "nitty-gritty" info on the 100 BoOF 26" rifles, and have found VERY little, beyond simply that they were assembled and tested in June 1902. I'm assuming there are detailed testing reports somewhere to support the annual summary report of the BoOF.

As noted here previously, I am fortunate enough to have two of the rifles. One, 389182, which has the correct (1901 x 2100) sights, had the stock whacked which I still need to stretch. The other, 388786, resides in a very lightly worn carbine stock without cartouches, and has a 1902C sight.

My theory is that, during the testing at Plattsburgh, someone said "Hey, let's see how this thing would look/handle with a carbine stock." They could easily have 'phoned SA and gotten the parts. Needless to say, I would REALLY like to find that verified in the testing logs, if such still exist.

So, IF you ever trip over anything like that, I'd surely like to know about it. Many thanks in advance, and also, thank you for all of which you have dug up already!

As to how it handles in a short stock, the answer is, wonderfully, at least for sporting purposes. It'd be a tad long for the woods, but seems just right for open country.
  
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Knute1
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Re: Krag Rifle Issued To 12th Engineers In WWI
Reply #14 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 5:09pm
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Dick, I am assuming you are talking about the 100 rifles that show up in the 1902 Ordnance Report, page 34. They don't say much more in this report, but I'll look some more. Also, is BoOF short for something?

See item 128 on page 34:

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