Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
 10 NRA Cutdown? (Read 2004 times)
Krag0matic
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 11
Joined: May 17th, 2019
NRA Cutdown?
Jul 11th, 2019 at 1:55am
Print Post  
Could my RITZ Stamped Oddball Krag, which is a cutdown, be an NRA Cutdown? It seems to have all the signs of one so far that I find, what say Ye?
I have attached some photos of important areas for review. Thanks for any input, as I am trying to determine if I should have CMP Re-Barrel it, since unfortunately the chamber,,, despite the great rifling in the Barrel, is damaged, looks almost like it was intentionally done too,,, sad.
Appreciate any thoughts / suggestions...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 675
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #1 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 2:56am
Print Post  
I've always been told that the only way to be sure that a Krag is an NRA altered Krag is to have a receipt for the work done from the NRA.

There has been so much speculation in trying to determine authentic NRA Krags that I tend to agree. You would need a receipt. Otherwise, it's just speculation. The Bannermans and NRAs and some Bubbas can all look similar without written provenance.

Interesting Krag, though, that you've shared with us. Definitely has an unusual occult history. Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Online


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5279
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #2 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 3:07am
Print Post  
KragOmatic - The plug in the tip of your forearm appears crudely done.

In fact, the wood plug appears to go all the way to the bottom of the stock, instead of just filling the lightening channel from the front. This is different than usual armory work on shortened stocks, like on 'School Rifles'.

The 1905 front-sight on your Krag appears rough, as if, it has been re-cycled. It also appears to be painted!
I imagine Benicia Arsenal used new 'banded' 1905 front-sights on the DCM/NRA carbines, when they used altered rifle barrels.

IMHO - Your Krag 'cut-down' is not a DCM/NRA carbine.













the
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Online


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5279
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #3 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 3:35am
Print Post  
BTW - The NRA did not sell rifles.

The Director of Civilian Marksmanship (originally called "DCM" and now called "CMP") did sell authorized equipment to NRA members.

Attached is a copy of a page that documents the sale of a DCM carbine in 1929, to NRA member Wilbur West.

Wow, 90 years ago today!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 490
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #4 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 3:22pm
Print Post  
Looked at that receipt, I did not see a serial number. Maybe it is there and just not in the picture?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Online


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5279
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #5 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 4:14pm
Print Post  
There is more than one page. The 'Serial Number' is written in pencil on previous page.

I did not post complete paperwork.

(No point in providing an image for a scoundrel to fake documentation).
« Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2019 at 4:07am by butlersrangers »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 490
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #6 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:48pm
Print Post  
Psst! Do not let anyone know the government was responsible for "giving away" military not military grade weapons to US citizens.

Did not see the number on the first, do not want to contribute to fraud just thought it would be nice if the sales receipt had a serial number to actually authenticate a real NRA carbine. Now I know it does.
You could substitute a closer in photo and no one would know but you and me, and I am not telling. Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krag0matic
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 11
Joined: May 17th, 2019
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #7 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:23am
Print Post  
Butlersrangers;
Although the stock plug appears that way in the photo it does no go all the way to the bottom, could be the scratch on it you are seeing. I have had the stock off to confirm the plug. The sight may have been painted on the upper portion do to a previous owner having Brazed a small weld on the sight, which they also did in brazing a small Ghost Ring on the back portion of the rear sight. The front Braze was dull in the photo but looking closer you can see the Brass colored area on the tip. My main concern, since this is filled with so many unusual mods, like the small compass in the stock, is weather or not to Re-barrel it, as a shooter, or just savor it the way it is. I don't want to be a Krag Butcher if it has any Historical significance the way it sits. I like the weapon, and it's features, just not safe to shoot as is. I do have another Krag 23" shorty that shoots fine and was put through the butcher shop before I acquired it Cheesy.
So thoughts and comments are appreciated. Wink
PS Nice Paperwork example, noticed it on one of your other posts before this. Thanks for sharing it here though.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krag0matic
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 11
Joined: May 17th, 2019
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #8 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 1:26am
Print Post  
PPS;
Here is a photo of the tiny Compass on the top edge of the Buttstock... It still works excellent, and looks quite dapper!  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 675
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #9 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 2:21am
Print Post  
Compass on a Krag is "Dapper" indeed! Nice!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Online


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5279
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #10 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 3:55am
Print Post  
Too bad about your damaged chamber. By making alterations, it's not likely you would be in risk of damaging a "DCM carbine".

You should look for a good deal on a 'cut-down' replacement barrel and make that into a 'Dream Krag'.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krag0matic
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 11
Joined: May 17th, 2019
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #11 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 8:08pm
Print Post  
Butlersrangers;
I did find a used one in good condition with the 03/05 type base already on it for 75.00. The CMP situation offers a new Criteron Carbine reproduction barrel, which they said for an extra shop fee they could put my sight base back on instead of the standard Krag base, but on the cutdown barrel the standard notch was not already cut into the barrel as the new one already is, which may possibly cause problems with a proper fit. Where I live there are not many, as in Any, Krag savy Gunsmiths, so I have been reluctant to do the used option. It will be something to ponder, but at least, as you mentioned, I would not be altering a known and documented version.
Either way it's a keeper for me, but I still wish I could find out who that RITZ guy was, Lol...  Wink
Thanks for the Comments.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krag0matic
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 11
Joined: May 17th, 2019
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #12 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 8:09pm
Print Post  
PS. that Dream Krag Photo is very Cool Indeed...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Online


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 5279
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #13 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 8:53pm
Print Post  
'KragOmatic': If that used barrel did not have the Krag 'extractor notch', it probably was not a Krag barrel.

BTW - The Criterion barrels use a different rear-sight screw thread than original barrels. Original Krag sight-screws will no longer work.

IMHO - If I were buying a Criterion barrel and having the CMP install it, I would have a replica Krag front-sight base installed. I would also get a 30 inch barrel.
IIRC - The price is the same and resale would be a lot better.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Krag0matic
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 11
Joined: May 17th, 2019
Re: NRA Cutdown?
Reply #14 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 11:35pm
Print Post  
Butlersrangers;
The used Barrel does have the extractor notch, and is definitely a Krag Barrel, with the "P" stamping near threaded end of the Barrel.
The notch I was speaking of in the last post is the standard front sight Notch in the barrel, where the front sight base is mounted/soldiered to. The 03/05 front sight has a band, unlike the original Krag front sight, and my current Barrel was machined down to fit the band accordingly, but as a cut down the factory Front sight notch for the base would not have been there, it would have been lopped off with the front of the barrel prior to attaching the different 03/05 Sight.
By the way, I was unaware the Criteron rear sight mount threads were not the original thread sizes, thanks for the info. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top