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 10 Help with rear sight please (Read 5492 times)
King carp
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Help with rear sight please
Jul 17th, 2019 at 10:51pm
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Hello to the forum:  About a month ago I posted a rear sight which turned out to be a fake. I bought a box of krag parts. This sight was in there. My question is can someone verify it is real. And would it be proper on a 1898 krag carbine?
          Thanks in advance,  kc
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #1 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 10:52pm
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #2 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 10:52pm
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #3 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 10:53pm
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Whig
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #4 - Jul 17th, 2019 at 11:05pm
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Poor pictures to examine detail. I think we have to have a high suspicion of alteration on these rarer types of rear sights when we have seen so many faked Krag carbine sights recently. Need excellent close ups of numbers and "c"s stamped on sight. If it was sold with other fake sight, it definitely raises suspicion.

The "c" stamped on the right side of this sight looks very clean to be original but that's a first impression of this picture. The front adjustment wheel looks like it's off center or bent in the one picture. Hard to tell without examining it directly.


Please post better pictures if you can. Thanks!
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #5 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:22am
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Pic.
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #6 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:22am
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #7 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:23am
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Sight
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #8 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:24am
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Sight
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #9 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:24am
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Sight
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #10 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:25am
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Hope these are better.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #11 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:40am
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King carp - I would accept your model 1898 carbine sight as the "Real Deal'. There are several points about the ('Dickson') 1898 carbine sight that make it difficult to fake.

1. The 1898 carbine version had the lowest curve on its base of the 1898 and 1902 sights.

2. The lock-screw on the right side of the slide will have no slot.

3. The left side of the slide has no 'drain' hole. The left side of the leaf has no serrations.

4. The "C" stamped on the right side of the base and center-top of the eye-piece should show no disruption of metal.

6. Unlike the 1898 Rifle eye-piece, the three Carbine sighting notches have no compensation for bullet-drift. The middle notch is centered. The left and right notches are equidistant from their respective edges.

A rifle eye-piece will have all three notches very slightly off-set to the right. This is a 'Red Flag' that makes faked rifle eye-pieces obvious.

Your 1898 carbine sight passes all these fine points. It is real!

IMG 1976 - 1898 rifle sight and faked carbine leaf. Both eye-pieces have notches off-set slightly to the right. "C" disrupts metal.

IMG 1984a - left side of 1898 rifle and 1902 rifle sights, displaying how left edge of slides are different.

Krag-1898c-1 - Photo shows low carbine base/ramp.

Krag - 1898-c2 - Photo shows carbine notch spacing. Note center notch lines up with center of eye-piece.
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2019 at 11:44am by butlersrangers »  
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Whig
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #12 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:44am
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Thanks for the better pictures. The slide and adjustment knobs look good. I don't see any problems with the fonts of the numbers or "c" stampings. The metal isn't disrupted anywhere.

The large "C" stamp on the top of the sight is centered which is critical. I have seen these off-center on fakes.

I don't have my sight with me to compare but from the pictures, I would say it looks good. I would like some other opinions because I miss some details sometimes.

I'd vote "good" so far!

Nice sight!
  
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King carp
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #13 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 3:45am
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Thanks everyone for your help. That is great news. Does this sight go on a 1899 carbine stock. It does not seem to fit on my 1898 carbine stock. It also seems to be kind of awkward to use. I think the 1901 style sight is more user friendly.  I do not usually ask about value. But if I cannot use this sight what would be a fair asking price for it?
     Thanks again,  kc
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help with rear sight please
Reply #14 - Jul 18th, 2019 at 4:55am
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King carp - This is the Krag rear-sight that was used with the 2,200 fps cartridge. This ammo proved too hot for the Krag action and began resulting in cracked Bolt Locking Lugs.

The Carbine version appeared on model 1899 carbines, according to Frank Mallory, made from January to July, 1900.

There was also a Rifle version of this sight.

The sight with three notches was unpopular. (The outside notches were for wind correction).
The 1898 sight was the first U.S. Krag sight that incorporated windage adjustment.

The 2,200 fps ammo was pulled out of service. The model 1898 sights thus became obsolete.

In the early 1900's the 1898  leaf and eye-piece (with the outside notches ground-off) were used to make a variation of the 1902 sight.
(I don't believe the bases were officially reused).

The 1898 sight used the same hand-guard that would be used with the 1902 sight. The same hand-guard was used on rifles and carbines.

The 1898 sights, especially the carbine, are hard to find because the leaf and eyepiece were recycled. They are probably not in great demand.

At the Michigan Show last February, one that I was interested in, was sold for $250. (I'm not that interested)!

Photo - 1898 carbine sight with hand-guard.

p.s. It is not the Krag stock, but, the hand-guard, that needs to 'match-up'  with the rear-sight. The openings in the hand-guard are 'sight specific'.
  
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