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 25 New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags (Read 14277 times)
Whig
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #45 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 8:36pm
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One fascinating consequence that could come from creating a database of serial numbers is that some of us who have M1892 rifles that have mis-matched parts could possibly find someone who has the original serialized part for an early rifle and exchange parts. We may be able to re-unite early Krags with original parts. This would be an interesting use of this database!
  
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olderthansome
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #46 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 7:05am
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That, my friend, is a rabbit hole I don't think I would jump down.
  
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #47 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 8:18am
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Agreed.  Madness thy name is number purity.  I had the same idea when I acquired 112 but I am feeling much better now.  Thank you Buddy.
  

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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #48 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 8:15pm
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"Mallory used some type of spreadsheet for his list in his book." 

I have been trying to learn something about a Krag I just found and I'm running up against a problem with the data Mallory could make available in his Serial Number Appendix. My guess is that he, too, found limitations with the process which may be due to the kind of spreadsheet that was available when he produced his book.  I haven't used a spreadsheet in 25 years, so I'm guessing that Excel is far better than old spreadsheets.  But I think what Mallory needed was a real DataBase that would allow more information per item, as needed, without creating blank spaces and confusing formats.  I don't have an answer at this point, but thought I'd mention the problem I had with Mallory recently.

The space Mallory had to allow, in order for his list to "work", was apparently limited, often enough for only a single event.  Most pieces experience at least 3 events, but only one was often enough for the list Mallory needed.  What I needed to find, was an issue event, a return event with action taken, and if necessary a final exit event.  Simplistically, a beginning, a middle and an end.

In my case, my Krag was unlisted, but in a long list of pieces with the same biographies apparently.  Mallory chose to only mention the middle event which actually only begged for more information. The middle was "071400 TRP F 2ND CAV (C&R AT SA).  There are literally dozens of numbers with the same entry, but no clues as to when issued, result of the C&R at SA - I'm not sure what that involved - and what finally happened to the piece.

There's so much information missing - because of spreadsheet space.  A true DataBase could address this.  Mallory used generic 96C, mine is dated 95.  103 numbers beyond mine is, apparently the first issue to the 1st US Vols  Do I assume that there were no earlier issues to the to them or that mine is one to the 2nd Cav or something else?  Is the answer at SA? … or…?
  
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Culpeper
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #49 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 9:10pm
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The way it was explained to me (forty-second hand) and from my own observation of the data lists in his book is that he searched the original records and only found so much information was extant.  I do not know what the sources looked like or why he chose to publish what he did.

Looking at the information with an eye to the medium and media I see the use of some type of spreadsheet software.  The columns are straight and the border lines do not have any gaps like you would see in a notepad ascii charactor set.

I see a simple list of infomation.  Some folks find it easier to use a spreadsheet as a notepad on steroids instead of hacking away at a database structure.  Ick.  Besides I can import my spreadsheet into a database program if I want.

the only thing I changed from Mr. Mallory is the date format.  Don't know how or why he chose DDMMYY but it is absolutely useless when you try to sort through time.  The digital age demands the high significant data first.  Such as how I have it with YYYYMMDD.  Even the Military is changing the format on their format to this way.  Even the post office in Vienna Virginia changed the street numbering in lookup tables to street name and then the number like Main Street 123 and not 123 Main Street.

Try sorting multiple items in a spreadsheet and see what I mean.

071400      TRP F 2ND CAV (C&R AT SA) - 1900 07 14
1900 07 14      Culpeper was born.
1899 02 29      Culpeper stole a krag from the Germans during the invasion of  biloxi
111118      (Destroyed) burned up on re-entry by Dr Goddard.
033124      426th bomb Group Iceland  WW2

Most of the time the infomation that we would love to have is just not there unless someone a hundred and twenty years ago squirreled it away in a time capsule of an old trunk waiting to be discovered.  Oooooo.  Sounds like archeology.


.

« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2019 at 2:10pm by Culpeper »  

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Tom Butts
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #50 - Aug 24th, 2019 at 6:09pm
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I have started a spreadsheet for Observed Serial numbers.  It is a sticky at the top of this section.  Take a look.  It will probably be tweaked a little bit in the next few days, but I think it is a good start.

I know this whole thing started as Serial Numbers of 1892s, but I think we might not want to limit it.  It might be good to list all the serial numbers of any Krags that we see.   

The list is in serial number order, so the 1892s will all be together.

Best,
Tom
  
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #51 - Aug 25th, 2019 at 4:15pm
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How will you address receivers marked only "1895" or "1896"?  Are they going to be considered "Models" or "Variants", like Flayderman, or something else?  I find that Mallory's serial number lists apparently ignore the 1895 date on many carbines and lists them  only as "M96C".  For me, that could be a problem in evaluating individual pieces and maybe even for verifying historical information.

I wish there was a better way to deal with the information.  I think spreadsheets are inherently limiting if trying to find significant deviations from a norm.  A true database may be better as it will, I think, support a search on almost any term or phrase and allow additional information to be added or changed to an item, but the size requirements of the server and software are enormous.  Nevertheless, you've done some work which is a lot more that I have done and the beginnings are hopeful.  Thank you for your efforts, truly!
  
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #52 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 1:56pm
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That’s Great.
  

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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #53 - Aug 29th, 2019 at 3:25am
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So, I can mess up a w.. dr...  If Tom Butts can modify the entry for S/N 21015 for consistency sake. Under MODEL it should be "1892R". Add "92/96 configuration" under CONDITION. A couple of my fields are offset to the right. Thanks
  
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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #54 - Aug 29th, 2019 at 4:33am
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Let's see now.  I have rifles with 1894, 1895, 1896, Model 1896, and Model 1898 but not 1892.  I need one of those for the collection.
  

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Re: New Database for US Military 1892 / 1894 Krags
Reply #55 - Aug 29th, 2019 at 6:33am
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olderthansome wrote on Aug 25th, 2019 at 4:15pm:
How will you address receivers marked only "1895" or "1896"?  Are they going to be considered "Models" or "Variants", like Flayderman, or something else?  I find that Mallory's serial number lists apparently ignore the 1895 date on many carbines and lists them  only as "M96C".  For me, that could be a problem in evaluating individual pieces and maybe even for verifying historical information.

I wish there was a better way to deal with the information.  I think spreadsheets are inherently limiting if trying to find significant deviations from a norm.  A true database may be better as it will, I think, support a search on almost any term or phrase and allow additional information to be added or changed to an item, but the size requirements of the server and software are enormous.  Nevertheless, you've done some work which is a lot more that I have done and the beginnings are hopeful.  Thank you for your efforts, truly!



I don't think entering dates will be a problem. There are only six possibilities: 1894, 1895, 1896, M1896, M1898, M1899. The 1898/99 overstrikes are SO scarce that they could be handled under "Notes".

Yes, a full-blown relational database would be the best ultimate format, but that is a LOT of work. IIRC, beginning with entering data into a carefully-organized spreadsheet should not be a waste of time as I believe it could later be ported into a database if that were later deemed essential.
  
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