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Culpeper
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8mm lebel
Aug 10th, 2019 at 2:30pm
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Any of you guys reload for 8mm lebel?
  

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butlersrangers
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #1 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 3:34pm
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It's on my 'bucket list'.... interesting historic cartridge! I need to get a set of Lee Dies.

.... another project on the back-burner .... restore Berthier.

(This particular rifle has the updated "N" chamber, but, shoots well with Prvi 8mm Lebel. I've had a couple of Berthier carbines. Their recoil was noticeable).

'Gunboards' has a good French rifle Forum with lots of knowledge. 'Patrick' is awesome. If you dig around on that forum, you will find reloading data. The Prvi ammo seems to work well in all French 8mm Lebel arms.

I need to dab my sights with some Radium Paste for night shooting!
  
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Parashooter
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #2 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 6:08pm
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Culpeper wrote on Aug 10th, 2019 at 2:30pm:
Any of you guys reload for 8mm lebel?

I load for my 86/93 Lebel with "Balle N" chamber.

Lee dies
.348 Win. or Graf/Prvi brass.
.323" bullets (though .327", like Balle N, might be better)

I found published data generally over-conservative, eventually settling on 48-49 grains of non-cannister (surplus) IMR4895 with the Sierra 175 spitzer for a MV of ~2550 fps with decent 100-yard groups from a pretty dark bore. Since this was with a non-cannister lot of powder, this charge can't be applied safely to cannister-grade 4895.

Below information consists of software estimates from QuickLOAD set for a maximum average pressure of 50,000 psi (CIP piezo). Estimated velocities appear substantially higher than what I chronographed with my non-cannister 4895 loads. Note that this listing is merely of estimates and doesn't represent tested load data!

Cartridge          : 8 mm Lebel M/93 (8x50R)
Bullet             : .323, 175, Sierra SP 2410
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.808 inch or 71.33 mm
Barrel Length      : 31.5 inch or 800.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 50000 psi, or 344 MPa

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

See next post for estimates -
  
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Parashooter
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #3 - Aug 10th, 2019 at 6:21pm
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Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Ramshot BigGame                    100.0     55.4     3.59    2958    99.6    50000    7089   1.411  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            94.8     50.8     3.29    2935   100.0    50000    6545   1.401  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                  93.7     51.9     3.37    2924    99.3    50000    6869   1.429  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031                            93.5     48.4     3.14    2910   100.0    50000    6083   1.426  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                            95.6     52.1     3.38    2907    99.5    50000    6628   1.413  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       96.1     51.5     3.34    2887   100.0    50000    6269   1.421  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET                      95.8     51.4     3.33    2877    99.2    50000    6579   1.427  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            96.5     50.5     3.27    2870    99.3    50000    6434   1.433  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150                    102.1     53.4     3.46    2866   100.0    50000    6253   1.438  ! Near Maximum !
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2019 at 7:18pm by Parashooter »  
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Culpeper
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #4 - Aug 11th, 2019 at 4:54pm
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Oh I know about back burner projects.  Have a Remington Berthier that I have not shot since I bought it.  Heck.  I purchased ammo for it two years before I got the Remington only because my Chauchat project is on a further back burner.

Rule number 𝛑 - Buy the ammo before you buy the gun.

  

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Local Boy
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #5 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 3:39am
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Not sure what rule it falls under but I usually buy the bayonet before the military surplus rifle.
« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2019 at 6:11pm by Local Boy »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #6 - Aug 12th, 2019 at 5:43am
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That's Rule #22, when you have to get a rifle to fit your bayonet. I think Joseph Heller wrote a book about it.
  
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Cat Man
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #7 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 3:26pm
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Are you thinking of forming a French Foreign Legion team for the vintage match at Camp Perry? 

I confess when not shooting, collecting or reloading Krag stuff, my other interest is French Foreign Legion. Just started reloading for the 8 MM Lebel.

CAT man
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #8 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 4:53pm
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That could be brutal in Ohio's July heat. But, some of us would make it "FUN".
  
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Culpeper
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 5:32pm
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Cat Man wrote on Aug 15th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
Are you thinking of forming a French Foreign Legion team for the vintage match at Camp Perry? 

I confess when not shooting, collecting or reloading Krag stuff, my other interest is French Foreign Legion. Just started reloading for the 8 MM Lebel.

CAT man


Now that is a great idea! I wonder if the cmp would let me use a semi only chauchat?


.
  

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butlersrangers
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 5:52pm
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According to some pundits, the .30-06 version of the Chauchat is a ...... well ..... 'Single-Shot'.
  
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Local Boy
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #11 - Aug 16th, 2019 at 2:59am
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Hey now that would give me a good reason to dust off the ole MAS-36/51 and MAS-49/56.

Does anyone know if Camp Perry has a rifle grenade category???
  
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #12 - Aug 19th, 2019 at 1:12am
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I shoot mild cast bullet loads in my two Berthiers.  174 grain .324 bullet over 10 grains of Unique.  About 1230 fps.  Easy on shoulder and steel targets.   Smiley
  
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Culpeper
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #13 - Aug 19th, 2019 at 3:52am
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Who made the mold?  I'll check it out.
  

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psteinmayer
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Re: 8mm lebel
Reply #14 - Aug 19th, 2019 at 11:46am
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Something I've been curious about: 

Looking at Chuck's picture at first, I was wondering why this bullet looked like it had a tail, but I chalked it up to a weird shadow or something else I just couldn't see.  However, this has become an itch I just haven't been able to scratch... so I'm asking:  Does this bullet have some weird knife edge which extends into the case?  Why does this bullet look like that?  Or... is it just that my eyes aren't seeing something?
  
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