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 10 Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards (Read 3668 times)
Hoot
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Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Sep 22nd, 2019 at 8:11pm
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Link => (You need to Login to view media files and links)

Hopefully one does not have to be a member to view...
  
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Ned Butts
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #1 - Sep 22nd, 2019 at 8:25pm
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A Rice sight on steroids!!!!
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #2 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 6:32am
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That is the most complicated 'simple' Krag sight, that I have ever seen.

I have never seen this item before. Nor do I recognize any origin or parts from another sight 'family'.

The 'Safety-Lever' is not a standard Springfield Armory 'Safety'. Part of this sight's retention may be a screw, that goes through the early 'grooved' Bolt-Collar and also retains the shaft of the Safety.

The double-screw "L"-shaped side-plates, appear to clamp the extractor, as a forward anchor point.

A mighty curious sight that was skillfully made!

The main body looks like it could have been machined from a Luger frame.
  
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craigster
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #3 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 9:18pm
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A lot of time, thought, and skill went into making that sight.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #4 - Sep 24th, 2019 at 1:51am
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Ned nailed it. In spite of all the work that went into this sight, it is not much more sophisticated than the Leroy Rice sheet metal sights.
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #5 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:03am
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Quality carftsmanship!

You guys sure FredC didn't have something to do with it???
  
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FredC
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #6 - Sep 25th, 2019 at 10:28pm
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Local Boy wrote on Sep 25th, 2019 at 6:03am:
Quality carftsmanship!

You guys sure FredC didn't have something to do with it???


Was not me. Some portions appear well made. I can not figure out what all the screws do. From the photos, I have no idea how the elevation is adjusted. Is the windage adjusted by loosening the screw on one side and tightening the opposite? Not a bad system, I did the same on this laser sight on my son's 45/70. A lot better laser sights can be had today, not so when I made this one from a pocket laser pointer.
  
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Hoot
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 2:08pm
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My best guess for elevation is the peep is mounted to/integral with a leaf spring and the large knob has a cam or stepped surfaces under said spring. The remainder is something of a mystery. I'd love to see it in person.
  
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FredC
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 2:17pm
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Hoot, that could be as there is a locknut on the opposite side to hold the set elevation? The 2 screws on each side on the forward part are something of a mystery also. A lot going on there.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #9 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 4:23pm
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FWIW - My take on this overly complex sight-arrangement. (Sights fascinate me).

Picture #1:  A 'modernized' early bolt collar, that Springfield updated to take the later type of safety-lever was used.
However, our "Tinker-Gunsmith" reopened the 'filled' cross-pin hole. He used an early 'pinned' Safety-Lever.
The Safety-Lever and rear of the 'Peep'-Sight are retained by a cross-screw.

Picture #2:  The 'Peep' is a hole through the short leg of an "L" shaped spring. The spring is retained at the front by a large headed screw, which also allows it to pivot, sideways.
Windage is adjusted and locked by two opposing machine screws (red arrows).
Elevation is controlled by a numbered Knob. The shank of the knob may have four flats of varying heights (green arrows). The shank is retained on the right side of the sight by a 'slotted-washer/nut' and maybe a hidden pin.

Picture #3: The sight is held in place on the bolt by a cross-screw through the Bolt-Sleeve and by two side-plates that clamp the Krag Extractor. (Anchor-Screws marked with purple arrows).

BTW - This begs the question ... did this Sight require partial disassembly in order to remove the Krag's Bolt?
  
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FredC
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #10 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:40pm
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Colored arrows a little hard for color blind me to interpret. Reading the description several times you may be entirely correct.
The screw holding down the spring/peep does it thread into a user tapped hole in the bolt sleeve, or is it independent of the normal pivot pin? As said before a lot going on there.
Maybe the fellow that has it will post the unit disassembled in the future. He really does need to clean and lube it, right?
  
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King carp
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #11 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 3:49am
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Do these styles of bolt mounted sights give up some accuracy because of play in the bolt , receiver connection? Or are they as good as a receiver mounted sight?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #12 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 4:42am
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I don't rightly Know. I have never used such bolt-mounted sights.

The well machined sight featured in the DoubleGunShop Boards may be a one of a kind custom or prototype sight. It probably works well. Maybe some of the many surfaces assist a snug alignment. (It appears part of the right side-plate contacts the receiver).

I would like to see the whole rifle.
IMHO - That rare rear-sight sits quite high and would require a rather tall front-sight. Also, probably a high comb on the stock.

Both it and the Rice sight merely have a simple 'peep' hole and lack the refinement of screw-in apertures. The likely intent of both sights was 'Woodland Hunting'. The systems were probably quite adequate for short range hunting in cover, 25 to 125 yards.

I have never shot a Krag with the Leroy Rice sight.
Attached are photos of the Rice instructions, which address eliminating 'bolt play'.
« Last Edit: Sep 27th, 2019 at 3:16pm by butlersrangers »  
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FredC
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #13 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 2:26pm
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King carp wrote on Sep 27th, 2019 at 3:49am:
Do these styles of bolt mounted sights give up some accuracy because of play in the bolt , receiver connection? Or are they as good as a receiver mounted sight?

Going with the info from Rice in BR's post the screws are 40 pitch, so .025 movement with one turn and that gives 2.5 minutes with a 30 inch barrel. The clearance of the bolt is around .007 to .008 on a relatively unworn rifle or 3/4 of an inch at 100 yards. I just checked the clearance of the bolt sleeve in the channel on my dad's relatively unworn rifle and it is .004 with a tight spot near the end of .001. So the side to side play of the sight would be about .001 for about 1/10 inch at 100 yards!
Rotation of the bolt and pressure on the cocking piece would probably want to put the mounted Rice sight in the same place all the time. I did not like the idea of a sight that can move around either but if you do the math it is not so bad.
Having the sight move when you pull the trigger may be a little hard to get used to, never have used one so I do not know if that is a big deal or not.

Corrected a math error, 1/10 instead of 1/4.
« Last Edit: Sep 27th, 2019 at 3:39pm by FredC »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Interesting peep over on DoubleGunShop boards
Reply #14 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 3:02pm
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Then, there is the 'Striker-Knob' sight.

I tried one of these, once, on a 1903 Springfield. I hated it.

Anything that close to the eye, freaks me out. As the sight jumps forward, it is very distracting and 'follow through' is totally impaired.

Some ideas appear 'cooler' than they prove to be.
  
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