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 25 Criterion Barrels (Read 1243 times)
S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #45 - May 23rd, 2020 at 1:58am
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To me the original sights look like they were either set into a flat or dovetail, affixed via braze or solder, and then milled or filed down to match the radius of the barrel.  I was thinking this also could be done  with the Criterion barrel and SS front sight.  However I have never held either part in my hand so I couldn't say for sure.

Now here's a possible stupid question.  Are there any "industrial strength" adhesives out there that could do the job?  After all, it isn't your dad's Elmer's glue anymore.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #46 - May 23rd, 2020 at 3:46am
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Springfield Armory bronze-brazed a lug into a dove-tail milled on the Krag barrel blank.

This was done at an early stage in the shaping and manufacture of the barrel.

In the course of manufacture this 'lug' took its final shape as the front-sight base.

That is why the original Krag front-sight base is so nicely contoured with the barrel and the joint is almost invisible.
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #47 - May 23rd, 2020 at 3:58am
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butlersrangers wrote on May 23rd, 2020 at 3:46am:
Springfield Armory bronze-brazed a lug into a dove-tail milled on the Krag barrel blank.

This was done at an early stage in the shaping and manufacture of the barrel.

In the course of manufacture this 'lug' took its final shape as the front-sight base.

That is why the original Krag front-sight base is so nicely contoured with the barrel and the joint is almost invisible.


Well crud, that makes sense.  Thanks
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #48 - May 23rd, 2020 at 4:46am
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There were 32 machining operations in the manufacture of the Krag barrel. Fabrication of the front sight base commenced at step #15.
  
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Whig
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #49 - May 23rd, 2020 at 12:14pm
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Fascinating discussion. I'm generally lazy. I'd just buy a used carbine barrel and have it switched out. Front sight done by Springfield Armory.

Saves time and frustration.

Then I'd be out blasting away with it!
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #50 - May 23rd, 2020 at 3:07pm
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I'd like to be lazy too as I've been compiling parts for some time now.  And that was an informative read on how the sites were originally made that makes total sense.  Maybe we can all chip in and buy the milling machine that carved out the front sight stud  Wink
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #51 - May 23rd, 2020 at 3:14pm
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So I think this was already suggested, but for someone who had access to a milling machine could you mill the front sight off an original barrel leaving enough meat for a dovetail and install it on a Criterion barrel after carving out a corresponding dovetail?  It seems like that could give you a working surface with enough bite for soldering and contour for matching the OD radius of the Criterion barrel.
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #52 - May 24th, 2020 at 3:30am
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Today I've been thinking that the best thing to do would be to get a Criterion barrel and mount an 03 front band sight ala the NRA sporters that were sold nearly a century ago.  Looking through old posts the way to do this is to turn down the OD of a cut down barrel to fit the ID of the sight.  And then drill out the pin hole for securing it in all place.  Given that last step it seems like it would be best cutting down a rifle barrel to 22-inches as the "flat" on the Criterion carbine barrel would probably negate the effectiveness of the cross pin.  This would at least get me into a barrel that would both look and shoot good.  And who knows, maybe that original carbine barrel will somehow show up some day down the road. Thanks everyone for all your help, education and good advice.
  
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Ned Butts
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #53 - May 24th, 2020 at 3:16pm
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The flat might help you as it could just be a groove cut in the flat
Actually buy the carbine barrel and the S&S front sight post and experiment if you cant make it work put a band sight on!
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #54 - May 24th, 2020 at 4:41pm
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Not a bad idea and that’s what I’ll probably do.  And the elusive carbine barrel will have to wait for another day.  Thanks
  
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FredC
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #55 - May 24th, 2020 at 5:22pm
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Loctite glues could assist in holding the barrel band sight. Wicking grades could really firm up the fit after the sight is correctly positioned. Loctite seems to expand slightly when setting so it forms an interference fit. Would not be any good trying to replace the solder or brazing of an original sight. We use many grades of Loctite here, steel on steel or brass and copper it sets very fast, you have to be swift about getting things fully installed before setting. A wicking grade would allow you to take you time then let it wick in after you are certain the sight is where you want it.

I suggested the milling machine because I have several handy. I have no doubt that BR could do a good job with a file and other hand tools. One of his faux carbines he "turned" the end of the barrel with a file to fit the 03 band sight. You do not have to have a machine tool to do good work, just makes it easier.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #56 - May 24th, 2020 at 6:50pm
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The Criterion barrels look like a beautiful thing.

I do not fully understand how 'un-finished' their chamber is or the correct process of fitting a Criterion barrel to a Krag bolt and action.

Personally, I would have a Criterion barrel installed by a qualified professional.

(I have put a 'loose' original Krag barrel on a stripped 1898 action, but, I kind of understand that process, had adequate tools, and little money was involved).

Also, I would be loathe to file a 'step' at the muzzle of a Criterion carbine barrel. It is 'doable', but, irreversible.

IMHO - 's99vg' has gathered some nice components that could blend together to make a nice replica model 1896 carbine, (like the ones that were rebuilt using a model 1899 influenced stock, in the early 1900's).

It is my hunch that this is what 's99vg' really wants!
If that is the case, it would be better, with a Criterion Barrel, to have the installer silver-solder an S&S or original front-sight base during the job.

I like the look of the, so called, "DCM/NRA carbine" and have put together a couple of 'facsimiles'.

A 1903 'banded' front-sight can be installed without permanently 'stepping' a barrel.

The 1903 base can be 'honed' to increase the inside diameter until it will slip onto a short Krag or Criterion barrel.
I have used a 'slotted' shaft holding folded emery cloth to progressively enlarge the I.D. until it was a tight barrel fit. (1/2 round files help speed the process).

If there is a flat, dove-tail, or slight dimple on a barrel, the spline-slot on the 1903 base can be packed with some 'J.B. Weld' glue, prior to driving onto barrel and orienting with rear-sight.
Once hardened, the base will be securely retained, but, can be later removed with a brass mallet and heat. (The sight-band hides its 'engagement' with the barrel).
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #57 - May 24th, 2020 at 9:35pm
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To address your speculation butlersrangers, yes I am trying to make this carbine look as spot on and as new as possible.  My carbine and rife projects both started from stripped receivers and proceeded with my scouring the landscape for parts that matched their respective finishes and degrees of wear.  And after all if that I think I developed an eye for what the original finish looked like.

I mentioned at the beginning of this post that I originally put this question up on another forum and that led me to hear.  The forum was the CMP forum and for anyone who's interested here's a link to that post:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

The last comment I got stated that Criterion does not use the correct thread pitch in the rear sight holes.  Has anyone here ran into that problem?
  
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mavt
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #58 - May 24th, 2020 at 9:53pm
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I'm  not using the rear sight holes on my Criterion barrel but I believe they are 8x32 which are not original but more readily available which may be why they went with it.
  
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S99VG
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Re: Criterion Barrels
Reply #59 - May 24th, 2020 at 11:55pm
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mavt wrote on May 24th, 2020 at 9:53pm:
I'm  not using the rear sight holes on my Criterion barrel but I believe they are 8x32 which are not original but more readily available which may be why they went with it.


Thanks!
  
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