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New (for me) Krag carbine (Read 2182 times)
King carp
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New (for me) Krag carbine
Jun 7th, 2020 at 4:36pm
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After some wheeling and dealing I have added a Krag carbine to my collection. I think from what I have learned from this site and its members it is a legit carbine. The bore is in good shape with a little pitting. I hope it will be a good shooter. I think the stock may have been varnished? Not sure on that. Any opinions? Here are some pics.
  
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King carp
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #1 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 4:37pm
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More pics
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #2 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 5:01pm
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I certainly think it is a real carbine, and a nice-looking one at that - only question would be that it seems to have an 1898C base with a 1902 leaf. The 1902C base is flush with the leaf when down - only the 98C base, out of the whole series, goes below. Good news: 98C bases are rare - IF you want to, you'll probably be able to make an advantageous  swap. Or, just put a 98/02 altered leaf on it, though that wouldn't make it "right". More good news: all of the above would be totally reversible if you changed your mind. Enjoy!
  
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King carp
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 8:08pm
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Thanks for your reply. If I understand correctly the sight base is for a carbine but the leaf if from a rifle? Thanks kc
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 8:08pm
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Nice model 1899 carbine King Carp!

Is there a 'scallop' machined in the stock around the bolt-handle or is that just a shadow in the photo?

Dick Hosmer is correct about the make-up of the rear-sight. You have a practical 'parts' sight for shooting.

Hopefully in time, you locate a complete model 1902 carbine sight (or just the 1902 carbine base) and a '3-notch' model 1898 carbine sight leaf.
This would allow you to restore a couple of rare Krag carbine sights.

A 1902 carbine sight would be credible on your carbine with its current hand-guard.

Great that you have the front-sight protector! You have nice wood markings and color match. I would not mess with wood finish.
  
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King carp
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #5 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 10:08pm
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I think it was the lighting. There is no scallop. Would either of these sights be correct for this carbine?
  
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Whig
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #6 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 10:23pm
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King Carp,

You have a couple of nice carbine sights there! Any carbine sight could be considered appropriate for your Krag carbine but the Model 1898 carbine sight on the left has an interesting short-life history of its own. The Model 1898 carbine sight was made for a very short time in the first few months of 1900 when Springfield tried to make a more powerful .30-40 Krag round that had a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps.

This turned out to create problems that caused the powers to be to revert to the old 2000 fps round. The M1898 three notched sight was abandoned, therefore, and became another chapter in the complicated story of Krag rear sights.

The M1898 carbine rear sight had different calibrations to adjust for the ballistic changes with the new round.

The base curvature and eyepiece of the carbine sight are different from the rifle sight. The base and eyepiece are marked with the "C" for the carbine.

The Model 1901 carbine sight is also an appropriate one for your carbine.

You could use either one and see how it shoots. I like the Model 1901 sight with the windage adjustment and peephole eyepiece on the ladder.

The 1901 carbine sight pictured above has been altered by someone where the sighting notch has been filed out to enlarge it. That should still work for you, though.

From a date of manufacturing perspective, since your carbine was made November of 1901, the M1901 carbine sight would be considered most correct. This would require a different hand guard, though, as pictured below. Your current hand guard would allow the M1898 carbine sight to fit.

I love the looks of the M1898 rear sight with the three notches that were cut for quick windage adjustments when shooting. The altered notches where they were rounded off was done because it was noted to be difficult to use the proper one when shooting in battle conditions. Thus, the altered 1902 rear sight was made from the M1898 leaf.

Very confusing. I hope I got it all right for you.
  
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King carp
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #7 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 11:07pm
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Thanks for clearing that up. I think I will leave the carbine as ii came for now. I have a 1901 carbine handguard but I try not to switch things around if I can help it. Who knows maybe the frankensight that is on there will work out. I don't think it looks too bad on there. Thanks again for the help. KC
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New (for me) Krag carbine
Reply #8 - Jun 8th, 2020 at 2:48am
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King Carp - I will send you a PM later, but, my Two Cents for now:

Your model 1899 carbine, #362073, was likely assembled around November to December, 1901, according to Bill Mook's calculations and in December, 1901, in Poyer's tables.
An acceptance 'cartouche', dated 1902, seems pretty credible.

According to Mallory, the model 1898 carbine sight, was being put on model 1899 carbines assembled from January to July, 1900. Since it quickly became obsolete, it is unlikely a discontinued model 1898 carbine sight would be found on a carbine made 1 and 1/2 years later.

IMHO - model 1901 and model 1902 carbine sights are both correct on your carbine.
Since your hand-guard and stock match so well, it is possible this carbine once wore a 1902 carbine sight.

A common belief is that around 1903, the model 1902 Krag sight was the preferred service sight.
A variation of it was adopted as the sight for the new Rod-Bayonet 1903 Springfield.

In 1905, major changes were made to the new Springfield Rifle. This included a new rear-sight with features similar to the Krag model 1901 rear-sight.

Likely, the model 1901 sight then became the preferred sight for Krags still in U.S. Army use and the model 1902 sights saw a lot of National Guard use.
  
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