Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
 10 Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine (Read 2132 times)
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Jun 14th, 2020 at 5:58am
Print Post  
I have a pound of IMR-3031 and a pound of IMR-4198 that a friend gave me from a late relative's 'estate'.

I tried the IMR-3031 with 168 grain Sierra Match-Kings at 50 yards. It kept 10 shot groups within a 2 inch circle, aiming "center of lower 1/2 of orange napkin". (Hey, I was out of conventional targets).

I made some 'reduced loads' with 26 grains of IMR-4198 and 110 grain Speer RN hunting projectiles. The reduced load was a pleasure to shoot.
I fired a 1 & 1/4" four shoot group offhand (at 50 yards). A fifth shot was 1 & 1/2" away from the group.

The Speer data reports this reduced load travels at around 2,000 f.p.s. It felt like firing .30 Carbine and grouped close to point of aim at 50 yards.
(This round is too short to reliably feed multiple rounds through the Krag magazine. During tame recoil, some rounds would move forward in magazine well, hang-up on case shoulder, and did not rise to meet bolt-face. Jams were easily cleared by pushing top round rearward).

The 'faux' carbine was fitted with a 'no-drill' Redfield 102-K sight, held-on with a longer than original side-plate screw and an improvised rear bracket that adds further support. The front-sight is a 1903 Springfield sight with a Marble 'beaded' blade.

This is an enjoyable rig to shoot and would be practical for Hunting. It would be fun to roll a woodchuck with the reduced load!

Next target session, I will try a wide 'flat-topped' blade and conventional 'Bull' at 100 yards.
« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2020 at 4:27pm by butlersrangers »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RicKrager
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 24
Location: Highlands of Oregon
Joined: Dec 3rd, 2019
Gender: Male
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #1 - Jun 14th, 2020 at 10:13pm
Print Post  
Dear BR,

I was pleased to see your experience with 110gr bullets and IMR-4198. I recently found 110RN at a decent price and bought 300. I think I’ll go back an try to buy the rest he had. Today was to be my first batch of 110’s over 4064 for my sportyKrag. I do have some (~1/3rd lb.) 4198 So I might try your load until that is gone. So I thank you for that report.

The day before yesterday I took my recent (mfg 1897) acquisition and my sportyKrag to the range primarily to see if primed cases and powder last used about 1980 still had life. Things went well. SportyKrag, mfg about 1904(?) shoots well. The new rifle had a bit of trouble chambering some of my neck-sized cases From the 1904 rifle and I did not force the issue. I wanted to know if I needed to do a full resize on brass for that rifle. Well, it proved the theory. Either full length and mix ‘em or fire form and segregate ‘em.

I did find some cases where the primers backed out a bit, enough that the wouldn’t go into the shell holder for decapping. Those I adjusted by setting the fired primers deeper, though some still wouldn’t enter the shell holder. Have you had any such experience? The bore on the 1897 vintage is beautiful and clean. It doesn’t seem to have been fired much, though it, too was sporterized, albeit very nicely. The finish could be rubbed out a little. So far I have fired 15 rounds through it (proving the components). Mild cast and 150gr FMJ over 47gr of IMR-4350 (nearly a compressed load).

Any thoughts? All input will be welcome.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2020 at 6:06am
Print Post  
'RicKrager':

I have not experienced this problem.

I imagine 'backed out' primers could be the result of excessive pressure loads, very low pressure loads, or excessive 'free travel', a.k.a. "head-space", between the barrel breech and bolt-face.

One easy remedy for excessive 'free travel' is a trick, reported by "Parashooter", of cutting little lengths of monofilament. The cut fishing line curls into a ring, which can be placed around the .30-40 cartridge 'head' near the rim.

When chambered, the monofilament ring insures the base of the cartridge is kept tight against the bolt-face.

Upon firing the cartridge, the shoulder will move forward in the chamber, fire-forming the brass.

If fitted brass is kept separate for the problem rifle and just neck-sized afterward, the brass will fit the chamber perfectly and not require further monofilament 'rings'. The fire-formed brass will now be held at the shoulder and fit tight against the bolt face.

BTW - In the old days some gunsmiths use to lap the Krag bolt 'locking-lug'. They did this so the rear of the bolt-rib would make contact with the receiver.

This was thought to make the action 'stronger', in reality it increased 'head-space'.

If there is not a 'paper thin' clearance at the rear of your bolt-rib, you may have this situation.

A NOS model 1898 Krag bolt from 'Grandpa's gun parts' for $55.00 usually corrects this situation.

Attached photos: 1. Parashooter's monofilament fix

                          2. Guide-rib gap
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2020 at 10:12pm by butlersrangers »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2020 at 2:40pm
Print Post  
'RicKrager':

Here is a copy of the Speer Data sheet, I found online, for .30-40 and the 110 grain projectiles.

I like that their Data is current and provides a "reduced load" for each bullet weight and cartridge covered.

Since some boxes of 110 grain projectiles and a pound of IMR-4198 were given to me, I have some practice/utility ammo for the cost of a primer and 'loan' of a cartridge case.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Kerz
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 307
Location: KY
Joined: Jan 13th, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #4 - Jun 16th, 2020 at 11:15am
Print Post  
BR
Nice range report and outstanding offhand results!
Vic
  

Preparedness + Opportunity= Luck

NRA Benefactor Member
KY & WV State Rifle & Pistol Association Life Member
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RicKrager
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 24
Location: Highlands of Oregon
Joined: Dec 3rd, 2019
Gender: Male
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #5 - Jun 17th, 2020 at 3:57am
Print Post  
Greetings Brother BR,
With a bit of case prep and examination of the gap in both my Krags, I have begun loading the 110gr FMJ. Per your suggestion I worked a feeler gauge in as you indicated and found .008” slid in easily and .009” was snug. I think I will continue to monitor case evidence and work on sighting-in the recent acquisition.

I am quite fond of both of my modified rifles, from the historical perspective and as great shooters. At this time of my life I am no threat to the collectors. I will cheer from the sidelines when they announce an amazing find but not begin looking for the ultimate original. I remain just a rifleman and something of a pistolero. I explained the joy of shooting as getting little holes on the paper and then, slowly, getting them closer together.

I look forward to firing the 110’s downrange. I will continue getting various loads proofed and and in the ammo locker. I hope to fire in our club’s military rifle match. Our range has rifle and pistol ranges, plus pistol bays for USPSA. Rifles can shoot to 1000 yards. Folks in the western U.S. might want to look at visiting us.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FredC
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 759
Location: Dewees, Texas
Joined: May 31st, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #6 - Jun 18th, 2020 at 7:53pm
Print Post  
My dad liked shooting 110 grain round nose and 100 grain plinkers in his 1917 Enfield. He used that same canister of Unique (20 grains for the 30-06) that I just finished. He reported the gun barely jumped, it made a sharper report like a pistol but with less blast. Both bullets expanded well on our small white tail. He had tried the 110 grain hollow point and had a bad experience with them, they were made to expand a 3000 plus FPS and had no expansion at 2000.
I have done some of the same in my Enfield. Just have a method and stick to it. I put my primed cases in a rack case mouth down and do not put drop the powder in unless you picked it up from that holder.
I think the Sharpe's Complete Reloading book said 15 to 18 grains of Unique for a Krag with the 110 grain bullets.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RicKrager
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 24
Location: Highlands of Oregon
Joined: Dec 3rd, 2019
Gender: Male
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2020 at 1:04am
Print Post  
Greetings to all,

Today we went to the range to prove the 110gr RN over 26grains of IMR 4198. I had 20 loaded, one failed to fire and one would not chamber (I think it was my mishandling when seating that round). The attached photo will show the results. Bear in mind that I am finally getting back to shooting this rifle (1898) and I love my trigger job. Thirty years ago I held better so the 50 yard shots were from a rest. The rest wouldn’t give me the view I needed for the 75 yard target holder so I stood up and tried to control my motion as I took the first 2 shots, lower right. Back on my feet I adjusted my attitude (“Got my mind right!”) and fired the last three. Those are the untaped hits in the yellow ring.

I gotta quit foolin’ around with the bench and stand up and shoot. I also need to keep the rifle in the front room and begin exercising by shouldering it as an exercise routine. Here is a nice 1/2 round - instead of 220gr @ 2000 fps we have 110gr @ 2000 fps.

This is really Getting to be fun.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2020 at 2:17am
Print Post  
'RicKrager' - I'm glad you are having fun with your Krag and the 110 grain load.

You kind of summed it up for many of us: Time to put on our big boy pants ... "and stand up and shoot".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RicKrager
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 24
Location: Highlands of Oregon
Joined: Dec 3rd, 2019
Gender: Male
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2020 at 3:37pm
Print Post  
BR,
Reading through the archives, a great source of information, I found your mention of the rear sight on my 1898. It seems to be a Lyman #34 with the windage adjustment. It has a screw-in aperture and also has a flip-up smaller aperture on the forward end of that housing. This gives me three choices for the hole size as well as the shading offered by the large screw-in plate. The screw-in aperture had to be trimmed at the circumference to bring the sight down far enough to clear the bolt when shooting at closer ranges, 75 to perhaps 100 yds. Photos follow. The front sight is a Redfield (not shown) 11/16” bead to top of barrel.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
butlersrangers
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 6330
Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud
Joined: Oct 7th, 2009
Re: Some promising loads in faux '96 carbine
Reply #10 - Jun 20th, 2020 at 5:18am
Print Post  
'RicKrager' - Here is the bulk of a 1931 American Rifleman article on altering the Krag for 'Sporting Purposes'. The Lyman sights got a lot of "copy".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint