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 10 Krag Carbine or not??? (Read 10440 times)
Exhumis
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Krag Carbine or not???
Jun 15th, 2012 at 7:11pm
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Hello forum members,
I'm new to the forum, found it while attempting to research this Krag which I inherited.  I'm somewhat confused as to what it is.  What I know:
The barrel as measured is a bit over 22".  It does not have the Cartouche behind the trigger guard.  It does not have the "C" stamped on the rear sight.  It does have a "U" stamped on the hand guard band at the front of the hand guard.  The front sight does not appear to be original (as all the pictures i've seen show a different sight.)  The plate where the sling ring should be is smooth with no ring, but a gunsmith I spoke to said some of these rifles had the ring removed for cavalry use?  I have a friend interested in purchasing it but I have no idea what the rifle is worth.  To make matters worse, my grandfather decided to etch his name and SSN onto the receiver.  Sad I've attached some pics.  Anyone have any advice?
  
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JOHN42768
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #1 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 7:51pm
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HI, Based on the photos: it is a '96 rifle that has been cut down and a different front sight put on it. Serial number Dates it to August 1896. The rear sight looks like a 1902 version. The puzzling part is the stock. It looks like a '98, but a '96 won't fit properly in a '98 stock. The cut out for the bolt handle, is it straight sided or scalloped? A photo of that area would clear that up. Is there any readable dated cartouche on the stock? The hand guard is missing. John
  
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Exhumis
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 8:12pm
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Hi John, thanks for the reply.  I've attached a few more photos.  After more careful examination aided by some brew, I've discovered that there is some marking behind the trigger guard, just can't make out what it is and it certainly doesn't look like any of the cartouches (or if it is, a poorly copied transfer job?) on the Krag collectors association website.  Should I disassemble the rifle and see if there are any identifying markings inside the stock?
  
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JOHN42768
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 8:26pm
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The stock is a '96 carbine stock. It is probable worth more then the rifle. The mark you see behind the trigger is a stylized P in a circle. That is the proof mark. The cartouche should be on the left side at the wrist area. You won't see any marking inside. John
  
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Exhumis
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #4 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 8:31pm
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So it's a '96 rifle fitted to a '96 carbine stock?  Odd.  Can you offer any info on the proof mark?  There are no other markings on the rifle.  Thanks for the info BTW.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #5 - Jun 15th, 2012 at 11:33pm
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The rear sight is definitely a 1902!
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #6 - Jun 16th, 2012 at 1:46am
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Exhumis:  None of your pictures clearly show the Butt-plate area of your carbine stock.  The one picture that shows some of the Butt-plate looks like something might be altered.  The stylized "P" in a circle ("passed") stamp is common on Krag and Trap-door Springfield Stocks, behind the trigger guard.  The 1896 Carbine Stock is desireable to collectors doing restorations.  In the 1920s and 1930s loose carbine stocks were often put on shortened rifles to make sporters.  A real 1896 carbine will fall in specific serial # ranges, have a real Krag front-sight base, and be exactly 22 inches (measured from the muzzle to the closed bolt face.  The sling bar and ring were probably removed as being a nuisance to a hunter.  You inherited a nice family heirloom.  I'd keep and treasure it, as is.
  
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Exhumis
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2012 at 3:58am
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butlersrangers (and everyone else)
Thanks for all the great info.  I've uploaded a couple more pics of the butt. 
psteinmayer-i read on another forum that some carbines had 1902 sights, or that many of the rifles were returned to the factory to receive updated sights.  Any thoughts on this? 
A nice heirloom it may be, but the family member it belonged to was despised by my family so it sours the enjoyment of the piece.  I have a few other military rifles that were passed down so I feel ok letting go of this one.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2012 at 8:04pm
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Exhumis:  The Butt area and Butt-plate of your carbine stock are "OK".  Your 1896 Carbine stock appears to have been sanded and refinished in the past (hence the faintness of the "P" in a circle mark).  As someone else stated, the 1896 Carbine Stock is the most valuable part of this 'mixture of parts' gun.  There are many collectors looking for a nice 1896 Carbine Stock.  I would estimate the stock with its butt-plate and band-spring to be worth around $500.  Your barrel band is an 1899 carbine band and not the 1896 carbine band that also serves as a sight guard.  The 1899 barrel band has been painted and in its condition is worth about $35.  The rest of your Krag is 'cut-down' 1896 rifle and its value is based on its utility as a 'shooter'.  I would guess your rifle might bring $450 to $600 from someone who wants the parts.  IMHO   
  
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Exhumis
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #9 - Jun 17th, 2012 at 12:38am
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Butlersrangers-
Thank you very much for the honest assessment and extra info.  It's interesting to learn about this rifle, kinda makes me want to know the history behind it and how it came to have all these different replacement parts.  I figured the stock had been refinished-the color looks too red compared to the other Krags I've seen. 
As a side note, does anyone know what those small diamond like marks are that are located on either side of the barrel just below the rear sight?  There are about 5-6 in a row on each side.  Also, found a # 7 stamped on the bottom of the barrel after I removed it and the receiver from the stock to clean it.  It's located in the vicinity of the barrel band.  I've been searching all over and can't find any info on them. 
Again, thanks for all the help guys.  Appreciate it greatly.  It's amazing the info you guys have on these rifles.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #10 - Jun 17th, 2012 at 2:51am
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The "diamond" marks on your barrel are probably vise or wrench marks.  Possibly the barrel was clamped in a vise, when someone sawed the rifle barrel, re-crowned it, and mounted the replacement front-sight.  Such marks would be indicative of amateurish or careless workmanship.  They would not be found on proper arsenal work.  The #"7" stamped on your barrel probably identified a steel batch or identified a sub-inspector.
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2012 at 7:00pm by butlersrangers »  
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JOHN42768
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #11 - Jun 17th, 2012 at 2:55am
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I could be completely incorrect, but guessing as they are on both sides that it was clamped in a vise at sometime it it life for some reason. Might have picked up the markings from the jaws. The #7 might be an inspection mark of some sort. John
  
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JOHN42768
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #12 - Jun 17th, 2012 at 2:56am
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SmileyGreat minds think alike. John
  
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Exhumis
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #13 - Jun 17th, 2012 at 3:51am
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LOL.  Yeah, now that you mention it, they do look like vice marks.  Yikes.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Krag Carbine or not???
Reply #14 - Jun 17th, 2012 at 6:50pm
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Exhumis:  Not surprising, there are lots of Krags around that were made into economy sporters at a time (1920-40) when Krags and parts were plentiful and cheap and commercial guns were quite expensive.  "Gunsmiths" were not always overly concerned with finish and blemishes on 'Spartan' hunting rifles and minimized labor time to keep costs down.
  
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