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 10 "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings (Read 12481 times)
butlersrangers
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"No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Aug 21st, 2013 at 4:30pm
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I believe "No-Drill" is a relatively modern term applied to 'after-market' sights that did not require drilling & tapping of the Krag receiver (no gunsmith services needed to install).  It is good to recognize these sights, on altered or 'sporterized' Krags, in order to assess value and collectability.  (Extra non-arsenal holes lower the collector/salvage value).  The "no-drill" Krag sights commonly encountered are:  Model K1 Pacific, Model K2 Pacific (micrometer adjustments), Redfield No. 102K (Krag) and Redfield No. 70K (micrometer with either H=hunter or T=target knobs).  (Be advised that Redfield and other makers also made sights for the Krag that required drilling & tapping).  "No-Drill" sights routinely show up at gun shows, on ebay, and gunbroker.  If purchasing a Redfield model, make sure it has the longer than standard (replacement) side-plate screw or else you will have to make one!  Also, make sure it has the 'bracket' that hooks into the magazine cut-off opening (the magazine cut-off has to be removed for the Redfield and Pacific sights).  {My opinions and noted quirks of these "No-Drill" sights}:  Both of these brands of sights mount securely and work well.  The "micrometer" versions are a pain in the Axx;  there is no quick release for the elevation slide and the slide must be removed in order to take the bolt out of the rifle.  (It is probably faster to just take the whole sight off the Krag).  To have your Krag continue to feed smoothly with the Redfields, it is advisable to fill the empty magazine cut-off opening/slot with a properly oriented shaft, shaped like the shaft of the original cut-off.  The more basic Redfield #102K and K1 Pacific sights have elevation slides that are easily removed and set-screws that can retain the correct setting.  At least some, K1 Pacific sights, require a 'notching' of the stock in order to use lowest elevation settings;  this probably can be avoided by reshaping the bottom of the staff.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #1 - Aug 21st, 2013 at 4:35pm
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Photo of K1 Pacific showing clearance problem with stock.  This can probably be corrected by putting an inside bevel on the bottom of the elevation slide. 

  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #2 - Aug 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm
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The Leroy Rice sight is often seen on Krag 'Deer Rifles'.  It apparently worked OK, but is a bit too crude for my liking.

  
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edritchey
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #3 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 12:06am
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Awesome info.  I'm getting to the point where I need a better sight on mine with my eyesight getting worse.
  
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ekpugh
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #4 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 4:13pm
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[quote author=2F383921283F3E3F2C232A283F3E4D0 link=1377102600/0#0 date=1377102600]I believe "No-Drill" is a relatively modern term applied to 'after-market' sights that did not require drilling & tapping of the Krag receiver (no gunsmith services needed to install).  It is good to recognize these sights, on altered or 'sporterized' Krags, in order to assess value and collectability.  (Extra non-arsenal holes lower the collector/salvage value).  The "no-drill" Krag sights commonly encountered are:  Model K1 Pacific, Model K2 Pacific (micrometer adjustments), Redfield No. 102K (Krag) and Redfield No. 70K (micrometer with either H=hunter or T=target knobs).  (Be advised that Redfield and other makers also made sights for the Krag that required drilling & tapping).  "No-Drill" sights routinely show up at gun shows, on ebay, and gunbroker.  If purchasing a Redfield model, make sure it has the longer than standard (replacement) side-plate screw or else you will have to make one!  Also, make sure it has the 'bracket' that hooks into the magazine cut-off opening (the magazine cut-off has to be removed for the Redfield and Pacific sights).  {My opinions and noted quirks of these "No-Drill" sights}:  Both of these brands of sights mount securely and work well. 
The Redfield sights as shown do not have a pin as the Pacific appear to do to go into the cutoff area.  Are these sights complete or do they need the same kind of arrangement to mount?
  
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ekpugh
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #5 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 4:40pm
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The above post is out of context.  The quote got misplaced.  Anyway I did buy a Redfield sight.  Also from the seller it is missing the lower attachment screw.  He said I could get that screw at any hardware.  What would be the proper thread and length of screw needed?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #6 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 10:03pm
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Krag thread origins are a bit mystic (probably U.S. Military Arms threads were influenced by the French Arms of our early history that we copied).  5MadFarmers once gave an inventory of a 1902 Frankford Arsenal tap and die set.  The Krag side-plate screw and Krag rear barrel-band screw have 26 threads per inch.  I believe a .187 x 26 die was used.  You are not likely to find one at a hardware store.  The issue Krag side-plate screw is too short to reach the receiver threads with the added thickness of the Redfield sight.  I believe a Krag or 1903 Springfield rear barrel-band screw can be adapted, if the 'mushroomed' tip is filed to fit and the shank is reduced in diameter, so as not to prevent the threaded portion of the screw from entering deep enough.  (The Redfield screw I measured has an OAL = .561", length of shank = .470", max. thread & shank diam. = .180" and threaded portion of shank is approx. = .348")
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 11:51pm
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The Redfield "no-drill" sights have no pin that goes into the magazine cut-off hole.  They have a sheet-metal plate that clamps at the cut-off hole opening.  It was later realized the absence of the cut-off shaft caused roughness in the cartridge feed.  William's Gun Sight Co. gave this solution, but a Nail turned, cut and filed to shape and indexed correctly will spare ruining an original Krag cut-off.
  
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ekpugh
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #8 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 12:13am
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So can I borrow a sling swivel screw from my other Krag and use it for the sight?  Then I would still need to turn a nail to fit the hole left by removing the cutoff?  Could you possibly shoot me a copy of the instructions for the sight?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #9 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 4:05am
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ekpugh:  Don't 'borrow' a screw you are not prepared to permanently alter and make useless for its original task.  A 1903 or 03A3 barrel-band screw, I believe, can be adapted.  They are more obtainable and cheaper.  I have not personally made this alteration.  (The sights I have came with a screw).  The U.S barrel-band screws (Krag, 1903, and 03A3) are too long as issued.  Also, their tips have been 'peened' or 'mushroomed' so that they are not liable to loosen up and be lost.  When so distorted, the tips of these band screws will not enter the side-plate screw hole with out being forced and damaging threads.  Most of the distortion would be removed by shortening the 'Donor Screw' to the same O.A.L (.561 inches) as a Redfield screw.  The tip and thread pitch (26 tpi), of the screw you are altering, can be compared with your original side-plate screw.  Once the tip of the shortened screw will easily enter and screw into the receiver, it will become apparent the altered barrel-band/swivel screw has a long unthreaded shank that limits its entry.  This shank has to be reduced in diameter so as not to interfere with the threads.  This could be done by 'chucking up' the screw (wrap tape around the threads to protect) in a drill motor and reduce the shank diameter with a small file.  These steps should result in a useable screw.  I am attaching a photo of Redfield instructions for the #102K and 70K sights.  I only have the older versions, but, I have seen later versions that mention replacing the cutoff-shaft as described by William's Gun Sight in my earlier post.  (Well, I'm getting tired of this subject and I've drained my brain)!
  
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ekpugh
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #10 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 12:42pm
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butlersrangers wrote on Aug 24th, 2013 at 4:05am:
ekpugh:  Don't 'borrow' a screw you are not prepared to permanently alter and make useless for its original task.  A 1903 or 03A3 barrel-band screw, I believe, can be adapted.  They are more obtainable and cheaper.  I have not personally made this alteration.  (The sights I have came with a screw).  The U.S barrel-band screws (Krag, 1903, and 03A3) are too long as issued.  Also, their tips have been 'peened' or 'mushroomed' so that they are not liable to loosen up and be lost.  When so distorted, the tips of these band screws will not enter the side-plate screw hole with out being forced and damaging threads.  Most of the distortion would be removed by shortening the 'Donor Screw' to the same O.A.L (.561 inches) as a Redfield screw.  The tip and thread pitch (26 tpi), of the screw you are altering, can be compared with your original side-plate screw.  Once the tip of the shortened screw will easily enter and screw into the receiver, it will become apparent the altered barrel-band/swivel screw has a long unthreaded shank that limits its entry.  This shank has to be reduced in diameter so as not to interfere with the threads.  This could be done by 'chucking up' the screw (wrap tape around the threads to protect) in a drill motor and reduce the shank diameter with a small file.  These steps should result in a useable screw.  I am attaching a photo of Redfield instructions for the #102K and 70K sights.  I only have the older versions, but, I have seen later versions that mention replacing the cutoff-shaft as described by William's Gun Sight in my earlier post.  (Well, I'm getting tired of this subject and I've drained my brain)!

Thank you for the information and your patients.
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: "No-Drill" sights for the U.S. Krag & my ramblings
Reply #11 - Aug 24th, 2013 at 4:57pm
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I think repro middle band screws are available from Numrich.
  
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