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 25 New member from France, with a Krag. (Read 52153 times)
oxi81
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New member from France, with a Krag.
Dec 6th, 2013 at 10:19pm
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Hello guys.  Wink

I'm from France (excuse me for my poor english) and I was seeking for a US military krag-Jorgensen for a very long time. This kind of rifles are very-very rare around here.
Some days ago, at last, I found one. A 1898 model (#223373), formerly sporterized with an aftermarket shoulder stock, peep sight (diopter) and Lyman front sight.

All parts are original except the stock. No original rear sight.
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This rifle would have been found on a WW1 american airfield in north-east of France, after the war.
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I do not plan to change the front and rear sights, but I would like to find a reglementary rifle shoulder stock to give to this rifle a more military look.
Something like this :
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All help will be welcome.

Cheers...

Francois.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #1 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 1:50am
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First, welcome to the forum, and to the wonderful world of Krags.  I think you will find that they are among the most accurate and smoothest operating rifles ever made. 

Your rifle looks to be a very nice sporter, and well done too.  Although it's barrel has been cutdown, it should still perform well as a good shooter.  Rather than replace the stock, you might want to look for an original military Krag to compliment your sporter.  They can be found for decent prices on sites like the CMP, Gunbroker, etc.   I don't know all about the laws in France, and whether they can be imported, but it's an option.

If you're set on replacing your stock with a military stock, they can also be found on ebay, and other sites.  Rear sights and hand guards can be found too.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do, and keep us informed!

Paul
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #2 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:10am
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Welcome Francois to the KCA forum.  There cannot be very many U.S. Krag rifles in Europe.  It was not even appreciated, until recently, that some Krags went to England and France in 1917 in the hands of some U.S. Soldiers.  It appears, these Krags were utilized by U.S. Troops for training and guarding Railways.  Your Krag has been converted into a useful 'Sporter'.  I believe your gunstock is an altered U.S. Military stock.  (I have attached a copy of a picture taken of two men in the Philippine Constabulary, around 1905.  The man on the right is holding a PC Krag , like the one pictured in your message.  These are very rare altered Krag rifles.  It is possible that not one legitimate PC Krag is in the U.S.  However, similar 'School' rifles are common and could be easily made by anyone).
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #3 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 2:50am
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Francois:  If you are thinking about restoring your Krag to its original U.S. Military configuration or appearance, this is a very expensive and unwise plan.  Your Model 1898 U.S. Krag was originally an Infantry Rifle and the barrel was 30 inches long (76.2 centimeters).  An original barrel, stock, hand-guard, rear sight, and barrel bands are now hard to find an will cost $700 to $800 in the United States.  (A decent original Model 1898 U.S. Krag is worth $700 to $800).  Enjoy your altered Krag "Hunting Rifle" as it is!

  (Photo of my three Model 1898 'Krags' - "stacked").
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #4 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:00am
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Picture of a U.S. Model 1898 Krag that is undergoing restoration.  This one is practical because only the stock was shortened.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #5 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:13am
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This is a detail picture that shows how the Krag front sight appears on U.S. Rifles and Carbines (when issued from Springfield Armory for U.S. Troops).
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #6 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:17am
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The carbine sight blade was shorter than the one for the Infantry rifle.
  
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reincarnated
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #7 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:33am
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I am most interested in the stock as it is at present.  Would you please post a photo showing the stock in some detail?  I have had a similar Krag since 1962 and would like to compare stocks.
  
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oxi81
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 10:45am
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reincarnated wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 7:33am:
I am most interested in the stock as it is at present.  Would you please post a photo showing the stock in some detail?  I have had a similar Krag since 1962 and would like to compare stocks.


Hi all, thank you for your welcome.

@reincarnated: the stock is well made. The inletting of receiver and barrel is perfect. The buttplate is made of dark brown ebonite and shows the brand "BAKER". There is a tiny marking under the pistol grip "BL18" or something like this.

@butlersrangers: I do not have a PC shoulder stock on my rifle, but would like to find an original (or repro) Krag rifle stock and upper band to turn my sporterized Krag into a look-alike PC.  Wink  Importing a Krag rifle from USA is possible, but expensive (at least two times the initial rifle price) and administratively heavy.  Undecided
  
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Top Dean
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 1:00pm
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There are a wealt of good pictures at the front pagehis web site with all different of t versions and types of makes and models for you to look at. If you have needs for mote detail I am sure the members here that have the 1998 models will be glad to help. I have 3 model 1894 rifle, a model 1896 carbine and a model 1898 cut down, but my cut down 98 is not one for pictures as it is a parts only gun and the Bubba the did the damage to the wonderful rifle should be beat down with what is left of the rifle. Welcome aboard the site, hope we can help you out as much as possible! What part of Frace do you Live in? I live in the RIchmond Virginia area.
  
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Top Dean
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #10 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 1:03pm
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Your English is good, while not  perfect it is good, and I am sure if most of us here in the USA were to respnd in Frech you would laugh and snicker at us trying to use your launage also. Once again welcome aboard!
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2013 at 3:12pm
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oxi81, don't worry about your English - we are all friends here, and I actually had a "worse" language "problem" recently with a very nice gentlemen from Australia - a lot of different terminology!

Anyhow, if you really want a military-looking Krag, you will have to make some compromises. Since your barrel has been cut to a non-standard length, there is no military stock which can be directly swapped without modification. Rifles had 30" barrels (except for the exceedingly rare 100 26" versions made in 1902) and carbines, 22"

The PCR (Philippine Constabulary Rifles) and "school guns" (so-called because they were made for issue to colleges) are an identical modification based on a carbine, retaining the 22" barrel. So, a rifle stock is too long, and a PC stock is too short.

The suggestion that you buy another one, in full proper configuration, is really the number one choice, but if that is out of reach, there are options. You could buy a cheap one with uncut barrel plus an extension to fix the stock (as noted in post above). Trying to find all the parts for yours, would be financially prohibitive here, but maybe worth doing in France. I also suspect that parts would be much less hassle than a fully-operable rifle - it certainly was in Australia.

Anyway, stay in touch, and we will help as much as we can.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #12 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:39am
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Francois:  Your Krag has to have an interesting, but untold history (a 'sporterized' U.S. Krag that got to Europe).  More detailed photographs of your front sight, diopter rear sight, and stock would allow forum members to offer insights about your rifle.  How long is the barrel on your Krag?  You said the front sight is a Lyman.  Is it possible that the front sight base is a 1903 Springfield 'banded' sight base that is holding a Lyman blade?   I think your diopter sight is an early Lyman 48k.
  I believe you would like your Krag to look more military.  Probably the most practical route is simply to replace the stock with a rifle stock that has been cut-down to carbine length.  During the 1920s to 1930s the U.S. government sold off the Krags to citizens.  To make the rifles more marketable, some were altered at Benicia arsenal in California.  The rifle barrels were cut to 22 inches, a 1903 Springfield front sight was installed and the rifles were given a carbine stock or cut-down rifle stock.  These altered rifles are often called 'DCM' or 'NRA' carbines.  They were not a military model, but an alteration for the Civilian market.  They are attractive and practical.  I am attaching a photo of a Krag that was sporterized.   I replaced the stock with a rifle stock that was cut down and put a hand-guard and rear sight on it.  It has the appearance of one of the 'DCM/NRA carbines'.  Also in the photo is an 1899 Krag carbine.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #13 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:48am
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My fake DCM/NRA carbine at the range:
  
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oxi81
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Re: New member from France, with a Krag.
Reply #14 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 8:30pm
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Hello folks.... Thank you for your welcome and for your interest in my old Krag rifle.  Smiley

Top Dean wrote on Dec 7th, 2013 at 1:00pm:
There are a wealt of good pictures at the front pagehis web site with all different of t versions and types of makes and models for you to look at. If you have needs for mote detail I am sure the members here that have the 1998 models will be glad to help. I have 3 model 1894 rifle, a model 1896 carbine and a model 1898 cut down, but my cut down 98 is not one for pictures as it is a parts only gun and the Bubba the did the damage to the wonderful rifle should be beat down with what is left of the rifle. Welcome aboard the site, hope we can help you out as much as possible! What part of Frace do you Live in? I live in the RIchmond Virginia area.


I live in southwest of France.
I know that my english isn't very good, but it's my school english and I'm 51 y.o. now.  Roll Eyes

@Dick Hosmer : I would like to turn my Krag into a PC krag / "school gun" clone similar to this one :

(You need to Login to view media files and links)
But with M1903 style front sight and rear diopter. I already have an original RIA 1903 sling.
Just have to find out a rifle stock that I will shorten.

butlersrangers wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 6:39am:
Francois:  Your Krag has to have an interesting, but untold history (a 'sporterized' U.S. Krag that got to Europe).  More detailed photographs of your front sight, diopter rear sight, and stock would allow forum members to offer insights about your rifle.  How long is the barrel on your Krag?  You said the front sight is a Lyman.  Is it possible that the front sight base is a 1903 Springfield 'banded' sight base that is holding a Lyman blade?   I think your diopter sight is an early Lyman 48k.
   


I will take ASAP some pics of the Lyman front sight and the diopter sight.
The barrel is 54cm / 22 in. long
  
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