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1898 carbine (Read 9057 times)

John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	1898 carbine Aug 24^th, 2015 at 8:42pm	Print Post
	I just bought my 2nd Krag today and would like some help. I haven't figured out how to post pics. yet so I'll have to describe it. It is an 1898 " carbine"? Serial number is in the right range 1186xx. The stock looks original but there are no cartouches on it, may have been sanded? The knob on the firing pin assembly is hand made, possibly a handmade firing pin. It has a 1902 rear site. There is not a bar and ring on the left side. Barrel is .670 at the muzzle. Front site is shape a little different and a little taller than my 1898 rifle. Butt plate matches my 1898 rifle. I cannot tell if this may have been a carbine at one time and modified or was made to look lie a carbine. I would be grateful for any help!


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #1 - Aug 24^th, 2015 at 10:26pm	Print Post
	'John Hunter' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. Having made a posting, you may now find it possible to post pictures. FWIW - All Krag barrels have the same contour, so if a rifle barrel is 'cut-off' to 22" (from muzzle to closed bolt-face), it will have the same dimensions as a real carbine barrel. Some detailed photos of your Krag's muzzle/front sight area, stock forearm tip/barrel-band, and rear-sight, will get a better assessment. Many of the 5,000 model 1898 carbines were 'updated' to model 1899 carbine 'configuration'. If this was done to your Krag, you may have a 'long forearm' replacement stock. These stocks lack an 'Acceptance Cartouche' and carbine sling-bar & ring. A carbine stock will have a flat spring inletted into the forearm tip to retain the barrel-band. Your description of your front sight sounds suspicious. The carbine front-sight base will look very much like the Krag rifle front-sight base. The carbine sight blade is shorter than the rifle front-sight blade. You mentioned that your 'cocking-piece' looks kind of 'home-made'. Some people have altered Krag Cocking-Knobs in 'sporterizing' attempts. Also, Springfield, as an economy move, briefly made a "Knobless" Striker-rod. (I will attach some photos).


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John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #2 - Aug 25^th, 2015 at 10:51pm	Print Post
	I have been trying for an hour and cannot send these pics. its says the file is to large. tried sending 1 at a time from my cell and still want work. I will try again after I calm down some!


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #3 - Aug 25^th, 2015 at 11:32pm	Print Post
	John: You have to reduce the pixel size of your photos. Maximum attachment size is 768 KB. Your computer may have a program to edit and reduce photos for emails.


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John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #4 - Aug 25^th, 2015 at 11:51pm	Print Post
	Finally


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #5 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 12:24am	Print Post
	John - Your stock appears to be the 'long forearm' (1899 type) carbine stock. When these were used as replacement stocks, there was no need for an 'acceptance cartouche'. It looks to me that your front-sight base is too tall. Please compare it with the picture of a carbine front-sight, that I posted. A clearer picture with better lighting would be helpful. Also helpful would be a clear picture of your rear-sight and hand-guard. There appears to be an odd radius on the rear of your 'knob-less' Striker-rod (It could be picture distortion). IIRC this rod was not used on the model 1898 carbines. (Please compare with picture I posted).


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John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #6 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 1:06am	Print Post
	Are these better


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John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #7 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 1:13am	Print Post
	My front site bass does not have a hole to pin the blade


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #8 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 2:53am	Print Post
	John: Thanks for posting pictures. The model 1898 Krag carbine is always suspect because only about 5,000 were made by Springfield. Many fakes have been made. Your receiver, #1186XX, is in a range of numbers that was used for both model 1898 carbines and rifles. Your stock is the 1899 carbine stock. This stock model was used as a replacement stock on 'updated' 1898 carbines. I believe your 'carbine is a fake for the following reasons: 1. The front-sight base is not correct (wrong height & shape, no hole for blade-pin, not mounted to barrel in the manner (contour) used by Springfield). 2. Your rear-sight, IMHO, looks to be a 'mix-master' and not a carbine sight. It appears to be an 1898 rifle base. (The 1898 leaf has been 'Arsenal-altered' for the 1902 sight. It should be on a 1902 sight base). 3. You have a 'Headless' cocking piece. It is believed this was used on 1899 carbines and 1898 rifles from about #202,000 to #285,000. I suspect someone (knowledgeable) put this 'whole package' together to either intentionally fake an 1898 carbine or to have a credible reproduction carbine for personal use. This is a nice looking Krag to use and shoot (with many good parts), but, it is not an honest collectable carbine.


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John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #9 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:41am	Print Post
	Thanks for taking the time to look at it. I can return it to my LGS but I don't mind having an fairly accurate replica as long as I didn't get ripped on the price to bad. I paid $500 for it, do you think it is worth that?


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #10 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:58am	Print Post
	It looks to me like the blade has the wrong contours too, in addition to everything else that was said (that post and blade were the first thing I noticed). If it were a "True" 1898 carbine, it would be worth (and subsequently cost you) much much more than that. Do you agree Chuck? I'd say it's a very nice Krag that should prove to be a good shooter and useful for hunting too.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #11 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 2:42pm	Print Post
	John Hunter: IMHO - If your Krag has a nice bore, it is easily worth $500 just for parts and 'shooter' value. (The 1899 carbine stock with 1898/1902 hand-guard are worth about $350-400). I think the front-sight base was nicely done and is ethical in that it is obviously wrong and should not fool future collectors. As long as this Krag is portrayed, for what it is, no harm is done. I imagine, with that high front sight, this Krag will be shooting low at 100 yards. If this proves to be the case, you can file-down the blade height and reshape it. I would like to see a clear picture of your rear-sight, with the leaf "up", to see if I am correct about it being an 1898 rifle base. (The 1898 and 1902 bases use different leaf springs). (Photos of '98 and '02 rear sight springs):


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #12 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 2:43pm	Print Post
	John Hunter wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:41am: Thanks for taking the time to look at it. I can return it to my LGS but I don't mind having an fairly accurate replica as long as I didn't get ripped on the price to bad. I paid $500 for it, do you think it is worth that? You did not get 'ripped', but, IMHO, you certainly paid full retail for something that - sadly - is not "right" and never will be. Only you can evaluate whether you are OK with that or not, and it seems as if you are. So, enjoy your new toy! I hope it is a great shooter. But, in passing, I will state - for seemingly the hundredth time - the time for asking questions on the forums is before one buys, not after. Spending $20 for Poyer's book (even with all its' shortcomings at the advanced level) would have quickly told one that the front sight was bogus.


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #13 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 4:22pm	Print Post
	I'll go on record in saying that the wealth of knowledge I've learned here on this forum from Dick Hosmer, Butlersrangers, Parashooter, and others has been invaluable to me! Anyone who spends a little time reading the posts here would receive a Krag education that would be an asset to their future experiences with this amazing rifle/carbine. One could do a lot worse...


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John Hunter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 17 Location: Charlotte Joined: Aug 24^th, 2015	Re: 1898 carbine Reply #14 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:39pm	Print Post
	I'll try to get more pics. in the morning, I work 7 till 7. I took a chance on this gun because of the serial number. Sometimes I get a deal, sometimes I don't. I'll post some pics of my 1898 rifle I got for $270 because they thought it was a single shot! Now to slug the barrel to see if its a .308 or .312 and start loading


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