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1899 Carbine rescue (Read 7993 times)

Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	1899 Carbine rescue Sep 25^th, 2015 at 3:52pm	Print Post
	Hello Everybody. My name is Ron and I am new here, but not new to Krags. I have a 1898 Krag I got at the CMP North Store in 2010. This week I picked up a sporterized 1899 carbine from a local shop. Here are some pictures to show you what I am working with.


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Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #1 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 3:52pm	Print Post
	The Good: This is a true 1899 carbine. Receiver correctly marked. Stock is correct. Front sight is correct. Barrel band is correct. (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links)


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Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #2 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 4:01pm	Print Post
	The Bad: Light surface rust, including on the bolt face, and dark bore. Redfield 102K installed, so we are missing some parts. Cut off assembly and side plate screw are needed. (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) The Ugly: Bubba fancied himself a carpenter... Plug in handguard looks to be stuck in place with wood filler and wedges. Clear cartouche overstamped with "U.S.A" (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* to view media files and links) The first think I need to do is remove the hand guard to see if the rear sight holes have been "screwed" with and what kind of damage was done to the hand guard itself. The parts I need to find are: 1. Cut off assembly 2. Side plate screw 3. 1898 or 1902 carbine rear sight and screws. Since carbine sights will cost as much as the Krag itself, I am thinking about putting rifle sights on as a stop gap measure. I was able to find the side plate screw for $10 and cut off for $25 but haven't bought them yet. I am having problems finding original sight screws, however. Does anyone have word working tips for me on how to get rid of the filler without damaging the hand guard any more? How about a lead on original sight screws or carbine sights? Thanks in advance for your replies.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #3 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 5:35pm	Print Post
	'Ronki53' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. I have a couple of model 1899 Krag carbines (both 349XXX range) that were built around the time of your carbine (approx. September, 1901). Mine were both 'sportered', much more than yours. One, I restored as an 1899 carbine. The other had a cut-down rifle barrel and banded front-sight put on it. I use this "carbine" a lot at the Range and enjoy it immensely (as my 'faux NRA carbine'). Your carbine is a pretty easy restore and may even have its original stock on it. You would probably be able to get any needed screws and parts from the gentlemen who advertise in the KCA 'Classifieds'. I believe you have two correct rear-sight possibilities: The 1901 carbine rear-sight (fortunately the most common and cheapest) and the 1902 carbine rear-sight (very rare with only 5,000 made). Actually, your 1899 carbine may have started life with the 1901-carbine sight and a 1901 (rifle style) hand-guard. The 'humped' sight protecting (carbine) hand-guard was not approved until April, 1902. The reason for the 'hump' was that 1901 carbine sights were getting snagged and broken in the scabbard. It is easier to find the earlier, rifle style, 1901 hand-guards than a good 'humped' one. I would salvage your 1898/1902 hand-guard by taking your Krag out of its stock and sliding the hand-guard forward off the barrel. Once off, drill a line of vertical holes down the center of the (sight opening) 'plug'. Then file or carve away the filler wood and carefully restore the original opening.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #4 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 6:16pm	Print Post
	'Ronki53' (continued) I actually started with less correct 1899 carbines than yours. (BTW - Your Redfield #102-K sight is worth around $100). I found my 1901-c sight on Ebay and salvaged parts from other 'sportered' Krags. I was able to restore one model 1899 carbine as it probably first appeared. My 'shooter' is my "Faux NRA carbine". It is not intended to fool anyone. The barrel is 1/4 inch too long, the stock is a cut-down rifle stock, the banded front-sight (unknown) commercial, and the rear sight is a hybrid I made - 1902 'top' on an 1898 rifle-sight base. (BTW - Someone sells these, honestly, on Ebay as "Grandpa's shooting sight" for about $50. It would be a good temporary replacement for you). Photos - 1. Restored model 1899 and "Faux NRA" carbine. 2. Detail 1901-Carbine rear-sight. 3. Hybrid 1898 rifle base/1902 'top' makes a useful temporary sight (Not correct-Not done by Springfield).
	« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2015 at 3:18pm by butlersrangers »

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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #5 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 7:31pm	Print Post
	'Ronki53' - Your 1899 Krag carbine stock actually has two 'cartouche' marks (inspection & acceptance marks) from different periods. The earlier stamp is a Script "J.S.A." over 1901. Stamped over the first cartouche is a Block "JSA" in a box. (There is not a U.S.A. stamp). The initials are for James Sumner Adams, Assistant Foreman of the Assembling Room, Springfield Armory. I think the Script JSA, with date, was in use from 1894 to 1905. The Block JSA without date may run from 1906 to 1918 (???). p.s. A couple of pictures showing opening for rear-sight in 1898/1902 Hand-guard
	« Last Edit: Sep 28^th, 2015 at 4:43pm by butlersrangers »

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Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #6 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 8:07pm	Print Post
	butlersrangers - Thank you very much for help thus far. I am very happy to find out that the JSA stamp is correct. Thanks for the pictures of what a 1908/1902 hand guard is supposed to look like. I hope that divot in the middle of mine is not a ground down screw. I will find out this weekend when I take her down. The 102K will be for sale so long as the rear sight screw holes are not buggered. I will send Dan Lowery an e-mail about parts. I was looking at the "Granpa's Special" sights and I am leaning towards buying them. The same seller has incomplete 1901 carbine sights, but the price seems steep for not having a slider. The same shop that had this carbine also had a cut down rifle. I was thinking about buying it for parts, but the slider screw on the 1902 sight was sheered off and it did not have a hand guard.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #7 - Sep 25^th, 2015 at 8:21pm	Print Post
	Ronki53 - Also, check S&S Firearms, Glendale, N.Y., (catalog viewable on-line), as a source of screws, sight parts, and other Krag items (original and repro.). Caution on the 1901 Sights - Rifle and carbine versions are completely different. Carbine ladder and slide were not machined for 'drift' like rifle model.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #8 - Sep 26^th, 2015 at 1:17am	Print Post
	Ron - If that is a "counter-sunk screw" holding the 'plug' in place on your hand-guard, you may carve around it with a small wood inletting chisel. Once its shank is exposed, it can probably be screwed-out with small needle-nosed pliers.


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Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #9 - Sep 27^th, 2015 at 4:32am	Print Post
	I took the carbine apart tonight. The hand guard plug was glued in place with what looked like pulverized card board. I poked it out with my thumb and wiped the rest off with Hoppes #9 on a rag. That was much easier than I thought it would be. The hand guard is marked "99" and has a crack, but I wont try to fix it. What I thought was a screw was a dab of glue. The glue left a bit of rust. Some of the cardboard is stuck in the sight screw holes. I am working on it. I took off the Redfield sight. It left a shadow, but not to bad. The sight will be on eBay next week.


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Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #10 - Sep 27^th, 2015 at 4:39am	Print Post
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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #11 - Sep 27^th, 2015 at 1:05pm	Print Post
	Ron - I use Hoppe's #9 solvent and a toothbrush to soften up surface rust deposits. Heavier rust spots, I lightly work with Hoppe's and the edge of a copper penny or old bronze bore-brush. Lightly rubbing surface rust with a small pad of #0000 Steel Wool, saturated with Hoppe's, will remove rust and leave finish and patina intact. I clean 'blind' barrel screw holes with a drop of Hoppe's solvent and a Jeweler's screw-driver blade (smaller than the hole diameter). Rotating the screw-driver, counter-clockwise, brings residue to the surface. Following-up with solvent & cloth patch or 'Q'-tip, cleans out threads. BTW - Krag sight screws seem to be .156" X 30 threads per inch. Side plate and barrel-band screws are .187" X 26 t.p.i. You are not likely to find these at your local 'Hardware'. S&S Firearms is a good source for reproduction screws and originals show up on Ebay. (KCA Members may help with parts occasionally).


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madsenshooter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1079 Joined: Sep 10^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #12 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 10:35pm	Print Post
	Op's handguard is for a 1902 or 1898 carbine sight. I think S&S has some repro 98 carbine sights too.


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Ronki53 KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 8 Location: Illinois Joined: Sep 22^nd, 2015 Gender:	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #13 - Sep 29^th, 2015 at 7:15pm	Print Post
	Update: I purchased the cut off assembly, side plate screw, and "Granpa's Special" sights off eBay. The seller says the sights are made out of a 1898 base and M1903 "rod bayonet" leaf. I think that cool because the only place I have seen early M1903 Springfields in original configuration are at Rock Island and Springfield in the museums. Now I get a piece of one. I e-mailed Dan Lowery and he had 1898/1902 sight screws. I sent out payment for them today. Now I wait for parts. She should be back in shape, minus correct sights, within two weeks. Before I purchased everything, I checked S&S for sights. They are sold out of their reproduction carbine sights.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: 1899 Carbine rescue Reply #14 - Sep 30^th, 2015 at 3:17am	Print Post
	I believe S&S simply put a 1902 top on an 1898 rifle base to make their "repro carbine sight" (Same as "grandpa's special"). What I thought was shabby was S&S stamped these 'repros' with a "C", which is unethical IMHO. (Why not stamp these improvised bogus sights with an "R" for repro? BTW - Springfield used the knob and leaf from the 'ram-rod bayonet' 1903 Springfield to repair 1902 Krag rear-sights, when these 1903 parts became surplus (with the adoption of the 1905 sights for the '03..


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