I recently bought a Model 1907/15 Berthier rifle with a 'cut-down' stock. The 'Old War Horse' was also missing a couple of minor parts that I could fabricate to get it shooting. What remains of the Berthier is all matching numbers and a very good bore.

It is interesting to note that the Hotchkiss Ordnance Co. submitted three Berthier rifles (in .30 caliber) for the U.S. Rifle tests, conducted between 1890 to 1892, that ultimately selected the Krag-Jorgensen rifle for the U.S. Army.

I imagine the Berthiers were quickly eliminated from U.S. Army consideration. The design failed on many points that had been specified (single load ability with magazine in reserve, prominent magazine cut-off, one piece bolt body, and large non-rotating extractor).

Although the 3 shot, 8X50mm Rimmed, Berthier carbine was adopted for French Cavalry around 1892, the Berthier rifle was not accepted for the French Infantry until around 1915. (It was being manufactured for French Colonial troops prior to French Army adoption).

My Berthier 'cut-down' is proving fun to shoot and relatively accurate. The Sights are a challenge with a very wide front blade and wide rear notch. They were designed for combat with the application of 'Radium Paste' for low light conditions.

The Berthier rifle is rather clumsy and lacks the fine ergonomics of the Krag. However, it is well made and of good materials.

(I intend to eventually restore the stock forearm and front band).

'Culpeper' - Thanks for your Post. I do enjoy the Gunboards Forum.

I envy you, your Remington made Berthier. Your cut-off 'stacking-rod' should be quite restorable. (It just screws in I believe).

The Remington/Berthiers are beautiful and sometimes 'near mint'. There is quite the array of 'folk lore' as to why the French rejected them and most of the rifles remained in the U.S.

Heck, if I was facing the "Meat Grinder" of WW1, my rifle being out of 'specs' or issues of metallurgy, would be the least of my worries. I guess the French were just being French - "Bureaucratie" !

(I would not hesitate to use a Low # 'single heat treat' 1903 Springfield, if in a fight and my life depended on it).

FWIW: My French Chatellerault barrel has a bore diameter of .316" and a groove diameter of .329" (Four lands and grooves). The grooves were deeper than I would have guessed.

butlersrangers wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:


Thanks.  The berthier is a pretty gun.  Dang shame I have not shot it.  I was thinking of doing some Great War reenacting as a Frenchman up at Neuville, Penn. but that looks like a failed project at the moment.  Still have the rifle for Camp Perry though. 

I have no fear of the low numbers.  Most everything I read from Hatcher relates to bad ammo or obstructed barrels.  So do you know where I can find two pre-1910 trigger guard assemblies with springs and follwers?  I have a 1905 and a 1908 barreled receivers that I want to put back together for my own selfish reasons.  (I want to shoot them)

Best regards


edit:  changed "I have no fear of the low numbers too." to "I have no fear of the low numbers."

That is is how I read your sentence about the low number springfields.  I edited my sentence.  Was tired and it was late night.  Darn the English language.

I have a full case of prvi 8x50R Lebel from March 2011 that is still full.  Bought it for a Chauchat project that is stalled at the moment.  This is the older style ammo that should not be used in Lebel rifles with the tube magazines.

I get the ammo first then I find the rifle to shoot it.  The guns will always be out there.  The ammo on the other hand is a problem especially in the last five years.  I took it to heart from the great Jack Stanley over on Rifle-Company.com about "buying it cheap and stacking it deep".  Should have bought two cases instead of one though I see that 8mmx50R is coming back in stock in a couple of places.

Best regards,