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 10 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage (Read 8286 times)
nedkiley
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1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Nov 8th, 2015 at 5:26pm
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Just purchased a DCM 1898 Krag (SN 249832). Came with an oiler behind the butt plate. Was able to locate a set of field cleaning rods. I see the three holes set into the butt. However with the rods inserted there's no room for the oiler. Is this the set up or should the rods go deeper into the holes?
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #1 - Nov 8th, 2015 at 6:06pm
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Post title mentions carbine? Anything in that range dated "1898" would be a cutdown rifle.

As to the oiler stowage, it goes in first, there being a recess along the lower edge of the hole, then the rods are inserted into their holes. Oiler can be seen, but not removed, while rods are in place.

Note: some earlier stocks do not have the oiler recess, as that was an improvement to the basic design - the oiler originally being carried in one loop of the cartridge belt.
  
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nedkiley
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #2 - Nov 8th, 2015 at 7:12pm
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Thanks so much. That solves the problem.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #3 - Nov 8th, 2015 at 10:32pm
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'nedkiley' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

When oiler and rods are inserted as Dick Hosmer said, it will look like this photo.

  
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nedkiley
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #4 - Nov 9th, 2015 at 2:40am
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No insert for the oiler. Does that tell me anything about the age of the piece?
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #5 - Nov 9th, 2015 at 6:29pm
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Yes, it does.

The oiler seat was added, at approximately 69000, around August 1897. There is NO way  the proper stock for a 240xxx arm could not have it. You apparently have 1898 metal in 1896 wood - I'm guessing there is a scalloped profile in the wood around the root of the bolt handle? See attached photos.

  
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nedkiley
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2015 at 8:37pm
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Yes, it has the scalloped cut out for the bolt handle. Boy you guys are good. Piece is now in the hands of a gunsmith to check out before use.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #7 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 2:58am
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'nedkiley' - I am glad Dick Hosmer solved the riddle, as to why, your Krag stock would not accept the 'oiler' in the 'butt-trap' and allow the three rod sections to be inserted in place.

A Model 1898 Krag in a Model 1896 stock, deduced without pictures, Dick is a very astute man!

Your model 1898 Krag, #249832, was likely manufactured at Springfield Armory in early 1900. You described it in your original post as: a "DCM 1898 Krag" and in the Subject Heading as an "1898 Krag carbine". Does this mean it is a rifle that has been cut to a 22" barrel length and had a 'banded' 1903 Springfield front-sight fitted? (BTW - most of us enjoy seeing pictures of member's Krags - hint, hint).

As Dick points out, model 1898 Krag stocks were manufactured to accept the oiler and three rods. The 'groove' cut into the bottom of the (top) stock hole, usually, but, not always, penetrates into the bottom stock 'lightening' hole.

I am attaching a photo of a model 1898 Krag stock 'butt' with the plate removed. (stock has 1899 'cartouche').

You can see the 'trough' where the oiler would lay. Not so apparent, from the view angle, is that the trough partially penetrates into the lower stock cavity.
« Last Edit: Nov 10th, 2015 at 4:22am by butlersrangers »  
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nedkiley
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #8 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 5:19am
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Thanks for the insight. I'd love to post photos but I'm not sure how. I'll talk to one of my kids! Bought the piece through Gunbroker.com, Item No. 515405034. The posting is still up with plenty of photos. The butt plate only has one opening as per Dick's photo with the three holes for the cleaning rods. Guess I'll have to carry the oiler in my cartridge belt. The Krag is in the hands of my gunsmith being checked out. Try to post pics when I get it back and can figure out how.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #9 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 5:37am
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Krag butt-plates, with butt-trap, only open to expose top opening (hole), which is used for storage of rod sections & oiler. The lower hole remains covered by butt-plate and serves no purpose but to lighten stock weight.

(p.s. - Butt-plate photo with accessories was my work).
« Last Edit: Nov 10th, 2015 at 1:46pm by butlersrangers »  
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Ned Butts
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #10 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 11:32am
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I just copied and pasted the auction number and the stock in the pictures is a model 1898 rifle stock modified to carbine configuration.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #11 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 3:29pm
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And it does NOT have the "scalloped cut around the bolt handle", as the gentleman (who apparently does not understand the difference) stated. I cannot blame him at all as the feature - even though shown in my pics - is hardly clear.

Chuck, you are either quick with your camera or you have a huge archive of pics as you always come up with rapid clarifications. How about a bolt cut combo?

However, these latest revelations do nothing to solve the original problem!

How then does that stock not have the oiler cut? Missed in manufacture?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #12 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 4:57pm
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Per Dick's request for 'Krag novices': Photo #1 shows 'scalloped' area of model 1896 stock, where bolt handle seats. Photos #2 & #3 show same area of model 1898 or 1899 stock. (Also note differences between 1896 and 1898 receivers in that area).
  
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #13 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 5:25pm
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"nedkiley's" Krag is a cut-down model 1898 rifle. The stock is a model 1898 rifle stock (shortened) with a 1901 'cartouche'. The area of the stock, in front of the bolt handle, seems to have a skillful repair with an interesting 'stepped cut' to break-up the repair seam.

The wood and metal appear refinished and not government armory work. The front sight is a 1905 sight for the '03 Springfield. The Krag was sold as a "DCM carbine" without supporting documentation. In reality, any 'craftsman' could have made this configuration. It is an attractive Hunting/Shooter combination, but, a sporter and not highly collectable.

The only reason the stock will not accommodate an Oiler would be if a 'manufacturing step' was missed, as Dick Hosmer has suggested. I hope the OP is not disappointed with his auction purchase. As Dick always says: "krags should be vetted before you buy". He has always generously offered to help a 'newbie'.

It is a Jungle out there! Always has been with Krags - IMHO.
  
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nedkiley
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Re: 1898 Krag carbine cleaning rod storage
Reply #14 - Nov 10th, 2015 at 11:38pm
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All you folks are amazing! Frankly I don't care that it's a cut down rifle. I knew it wasn't an authentic "carbine" when I bought it. I wasn't interested in a "collectible"; just wanted to own a piece of history (in pieces, which is OK). It appeared in first class shape from the photos (and my gunsmith agrees). I have sent my check to William Butts for my membership and I am looking forward to shooting my "hybrid" Krag.
  
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