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 25 Loading for my M1898 Krag (Read 13319 times)
reincarnated
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #15 - Apr 16th, 2016 at 3:43pm
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IIRC, the Hornady 220 grain FMJ disappeared from the market in the 1980s, about the time that "bullet-proof" vests showed up in large numbers as police equipment.  I suspect that the FMJ 220 round nosed bullet would have gone through those "like corn through the new maid".
  
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Annapolis
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #16 - Apr 16th, 2016 at 10:13pm
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Folks: thanks for staying with me.  Pstein/Bultlers/1staz, you are very helpful.  So, here's my plan -- something along the lines of "compare & contrast."  I'm going to start out with the Remington 180's. 

After tooling up, the first reload effort will be Hornady 220 gr round nose soft points with 40 gr.s of  IMR 4350.

Then I'd like to find a load with less recoil and good for 100 yard targets.  So, for my last question (for a while) to you is what is your recommendation for this?  Butlersrangers, you had a lighter bullet and lesser load in mind?  Anything specifically you can share?   

Psteinmeyer, would it work if I continued with the 220 gr bullet, but just backed off the IMR 4350 a little, to say 38 grains?  I don't know what that does to the physics of pressure?   I have IMR 4227 and IMR 4831 at hand.  Is there something with these powders that will give good results?

As a foot note, I presently reload for my Martini-Enfield and use a Hornady .303  [#3130] 175 grain round nose soft point.  I use 18 grains IMR 4227.  This is a very light load, but works perfectly @ 100yds with a minimum of recoil.

And for my 1896 Lee-Enfield Mark I use a .312, 215 gr Woodleigh RN and reload with 37 grains IMR 4831 (and sometimes 39 gr.s)  Again, good results at 100 yd.s   

I'd value your recommendations.

Annapolis
  
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BM1455
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #17 - Apr 17th, 2016 at 1:29am
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I made up my first three test loads using 38.0 grs of IMR 4350 with the 220 Hornady RN.  I may go shoot them tomorrow so I'll let you know how it works for me.  (I'm sure they will work fine)  I will check the velocities too. My bore slugs at 308 and appears to have almost no use so we will see how it goes.
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #18 - Apr 17th, 2016 at 3:44am
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'Annapolis' - FWIW & because you asked - I have had good performance using 165 gr. Speer and 168 gr. Sierra Match Kings in .30-40.

I have started with 36 grains of IMR-4895 working up to 37 grains, W-W Large Rifle primers, cases Neck-Sized, and bullets seated to a OAL of 3.105".

I have also used the same projectiles with 40 grains of W-W 748, (because I have 7 pounds of the stuff!), with favorable results.
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #19 - Apr 17th, 2016 at 12:47pm
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I have a friend who I shoot with at matches, all at 200 yards.  He WINS the matches every time he shoots his Krag (an 1896).  His load consists of a Hornady 150 grain RN bullet, and I believe he uses 4831... but I'm not positive about the powder (consult a load chart for a good 150 gr powder and charge).  He said he uses the lighter bullet and a light load for reduced recoil, which helps keep on target in Off Hand position (standing).

I've tried to make 150s work in my Krag, but the accuracy is not what I like... but here is the important thing to remember:  Not ALL Krags like the same ammo!  What works in one Krag, may not really work well in another.  Also, I worked the 150s with 4350, and a different powder would most likely give different results too!

Sticking with the 4350 and reducing the charge would result in a reduced recoil... but I can't guarantee the accuracy would remain the same, as the bullet would be moving slower, and thus ballistic would change.  Your 100 yard zero calibration on your rear sight would absolutely change, which is no big deal as long as you compensate for it at other distances, i.e higher at 100 yards = higher at 200 yards... etc.

Speaking of matches, There are usually CMP matches all over the place (I'm in Michigan, and there are a few every month near me in different cities).  If you are thinking of shooting it in a Vintage CMP match, let us know and we can help you with what to know about that.  The National Matches, held at Camp Perry Ohio are held every summer (end of July/early August), and are great fun too!!!  Lots of Krags show up for the Vintage Match.  Also, this year, there will be a Theodore Roosevelt commemorative match, which will be open to only Krag and early 1903 rifles.
  
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BM1455
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #20 - Apr 17th, 2016 at 8:06pm
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Fired about 14 rounds of the Remington 180 factory stuff and my first three test loads.  So I have now put 23 rounds through the old gun.
The 180 gr Remingtons ranged from 2323 - 2470 ft. sec.  Most were in the 2390-2425 range.  They seemed to be more or less POA at 50 and 100 yards.  Once I got settled down and stopped looking at the gun and the cases every time I tried a little harder to aim properly and the last four rounds were all in the ten ring @ 100.
I also fired my Hornady 220 RN loads I made up with once fired brass.  I used 38.0 grs of IMR 4350 and they ran at 1780/ 1794/ 1817 ft/ sec.  They impacted about 1-1/2" low at 50 yards but I was still spending more time checking things than aiming so that is just a rough idea of what they were doing.  I did not have enough to test at 100 yards.  They seemed to be light loads and less hot than the Remington.  I will try 39.0 grs of IMR 4350 next time and see how much the POI comes up.  All cases looked fine but the fist time Remington loads do slightly distort the base of the case wall.  It appears to be more of a conforming the the wall than anything else.  The reloads using the once fired Remington cases did not exhibit any further changes.

BTW:  how many reloads are you guys getting out of the Remington cases since that is all that is around now?
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2016 at 10:40pm by BM1455 »  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #21 - Apr 17th, 2016 at 10:15pm
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I am well into double digits on some of my brass.  Anneal your case necks!  That will pay dividends in longevity!  The biggest problem I run into is cracking in the necks right at the lip.  Some cracks are very tiny and I don't really worry about them... but when the cracks start showing signs of gas leakage (i.e. carbon marks around the cracks) or the cracks are in the side wall of the neck, I immediately discard the brass - no sense tempting fate!!!
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #22 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 3:41am
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PSTEIN/BUTLERS/BM14/REINCAR:   I'm on the road and didn't have an opportunity to send you all a note sooner.  I very much value the courtesy and helpfulness of your replies.  All of you have added valuable parts to the puzzle from your experience.  I can now draw some base lines and then experiment with loads.  It will be a week or so before my first trip to the range.  I will post the first results then.  I am in your combined debt.  Thanks.   Annapolis
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #23 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 11:31am
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No problem at all... that's what we're all here for!  Let us know how things work out.

Are you thinking of shooting local Vintage matches or the Nationals?  Just curious...  A bunch of us here do!

Cheers
Paul
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #24 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 4:32am
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PStein:  I'd be interested in going to watch local vintage matches that may be in the Mid-Atlantic area.  I'm in Maryland.  I'm not familiar enough with my Krag to even think about competing -- ti would be presumptuous of me.  I do a lot of British vintage shooting, e.g. with the Victorian Rifles group at its annual "international," and wouldn't mind peeking around the corner at 45/70 and Krag contests.  Yet, just like to see what's it about for now.   Terry  (aka, Annapolis).
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #25 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 11:02am
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If you go to the CMP site, and find Competition Tracker, you'll find listings of all of the CMP matches around the country.  You should be able to find one that's reasonably close to your location. For instance, Fort Hill Rifle and Pistol Club in Cumberland, MD is holding a As Issued Military Rifle Match (Vintage, Springfield, and Garand matches) on June 4th (might be a bit of a drive from Annapolis, but just as an example).  Most of the time, these matches are open to non-club members too. Anything that says Vintage is open for Krags and other mechanically operated military rifles.  Springfield is only for M1903/1903A1/1903A3 rifles.  I shoot in at least one match a month... and sometimes more - in addition to the National Rifle Matches.  I'd shoot every weekend, but I think my wife would kill me (she'd beat me to death with one of my rifles, LOL)!
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #26 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 3:19pm
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Not too far from you. Maybe an hour or so.

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Saturday, April 30, 2016      
09:00 AM  - 01:00 PM      CMP Match - Garand/Springfield/Vintage Rifle Match
Maryland Rifle Club
200-yard High Power & Silhouette Range      

Saturday, October 01, 2016      
09:00 AM  - 01:00 PM      CMP Garand/Springfield/Vintage Rifle Match
Maryland Rifle Club
200-yard High Power & Silhouette Range      

Saturday, November 12, 2016      
09:00 AM  - 01:00 PM      CMP Garand/Springfield/Vintage Rifle Match
Maryland Rifle Club
200-yard High Power & Silhouette Range

Or an hour further...

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Or just plain shooting

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Deacon in the Church of the Mighty Krag. Member of People Eating Tasty Animals (PETA).  (You need to Login to view media files and links)
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #27 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 11:37pm
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Culpeper/Pstein:  I really appreciate your help.  I'm familiar with the Thurmont range, going there with the Maryland Schutzverein a few times a year.  The Caroll County range is new to me and I shall follow up. 

In return, may I alert you all to something called the Victorian Rifles Association. It encompasses all British service firearms issued during the reign of Victoria.  So we go from flintlocks (75 cal)  to Mk I Lee-Enfields (303).  It meets in the Fall of each year at a range in the vicinity of Easton, Pa. for 2 days.  A lot of Martini-Henry's, Sniders, Lee-Enfields at 100 -200 yards.  There are several categories of completions and medals awarded.  Everyone is welcome.  Folks from GB, South Africa, Canada, U.S., Australia and fellow-travelers from Europe attend. A pig-roast has become a tradition.  Authors on military history offer evening discussions. 

Thanks again.  Annapolis
  
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Re: Loading for my M1898 Krag
Reply #28 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:42am
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That sounds like a HOOT!  When does this take place?  I don't own any of those rifles (I am picking up a K31 today), but I might go just for a look-see.  Heck, maybe I'll be inspired to get a .303 Enfield!

Thanks very much for letting us know about this.
  
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