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Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special (Read 4788 times)

HughesEnterprises KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 6^th, 2016	Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Dec 6^th, 2016 at 4:58am	Print Post
	Hi everyone- I'm new to the forum. I just picked up this Krag today assuming it was a chopped down sporter of very little value suitable for plinking. After some research it seems at least some parts of it are correct for Carbines. With a 'Model 1898' stamp and manufacture date of 1901, I highly doubt if this carbine is original. Stock retains the shadows of old cartouches, has no sling swivels or holes from them, and the barrel is exactly 22". What do I have here? Thanks!


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #1 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 6:09am	Print Post
	'HughesEnterprises' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. It is most likely you have an 1898 rifle that was either cut-down or had its barrel switched. Your Krag's serial number is way above the range of numbers used for the 5,000 model 1898 carbines. By the time your receiver # was made, the carbines were being marked model 1899. You do have a model 1899 carbine stock, an 1899 carbine barrel-band, and the model 1901 carbine rear-sight. It would be interesting to see a picture of your barrel's front-sight and muzzle crown. This is the easiest way to tell if your Krag's barrel is a carbine barrel or shortened rifle barrel. (I'm sure you know that your hand-guard has been shortened. It should extend from the receiver to the barrel-band). KCA photo of hand-guard types:


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HughesEnterprises KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 6^th, 2016	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #2 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 6:44am	Print Post
	Thanks for the info! At least to my eye the front sight base appears original. The blade is an obvious replacement (made from a wheat cent) Was it at all possible this is some kind of arsenal rebuild? I know it's impossible to prove with no records or stamps.


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #3 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 12:37pm	Print Post
	Howdy... and welcome to the forum! Well, to me, it looks like that sight post has been reattached (possibly silver-soldered?), which is not an uncommon thing where cut down rifle barrels are concerned. What do you think Chuck or Dick? As for use, I think this would make an excellent hunting or plinking rifle! With the proper carbine blade to go with that rear sight, it should be quite accurate. Make no mistake though, it has only value as a sporter, or for the value of it's parts. Still, not a bad Krag to have so long as there are no misconceptions.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #4 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 12:50pm	Print Post
	As 'psteinmayer' says, it appears barrel has been shortened, re-crowned, and front-sight base reattached, via dove-tail. Not badly done, but, not up to Springfield Armory standards. IMHO - Someone (now unknown) simulated a Krag carbine, back when parts were common. (Original shown for comparison):


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HughesEnterprises KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 6^th, 2016	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #5 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 4:04pm	Print Post
	I really appreciate the info guys. For my first Krag I think I did alright. Only cost me $250 out the door and I'm already setup for reloading for my '95 Winchester using .303 brass. I have a feeling these will start to multiply in the collection- the loading mechanism is fascinating and the action is the smoothest I've come across.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #6 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 4:25pm	Print Post
	"HughesEnterprises" - Your carbine stock, carbine rear-sight, and carbine barrel-band, add up to at least $350-400 in parts. I'd say you did real good! Put an original or reproduction hand-guard on it, 'dress up' the barrel crown, replace the sight blade, and you will have a nice 'reproduction carbine' for shooting. You won't have to feel any guilt about putting wear and tear on an original carbine. How is the bore?


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reincarnated KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 562 Joined: Mar 11^th, 2012	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #7 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 6:00pm	Print Post
	Welcome, HE This is one of those times when the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. I am sure that someone will offer you a rifle sight and cash for the carbine sight. And the stock and band. If you intend to use it as a shooter, the filed-on wheat cent may be a better starting point than an original or repro blade. If the rifle has accuracy problems & if the barrel looks OK, an aggressive re-crowning is probably in order.


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HughesEnterprises KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 6^th, 2016	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #8 - Dec 6^th, 2016 at 11:11pm	Print Post
	The bore is actually pretty decent considering the exterior condition, it's a little dark with a few light pits, but the rifling is still sharp. Haven't run a brush or patches through it yet, but I expect good things for it. I'll run a few rounds through it soon to test accuracy, but I may end up recrowning the muzzle just to get rid of the dent whether it affects accuracy or not. If I did go the route of getting a reproduction top handguard are there any tricks to getting the finish on the new one to match 100 year old oxidized linseed oil? I have a feeling it'll stick out like a sore thumb.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #9 - Dec 8^th, 2016 at 6:29am	Print Post
	Hold out for an original hand-guard. The rifle H-G for the 1901 sight is a lot more common & cheaper than the later 'humped' (sight protecting) carbine version and it is just as correct on a carbine. or: Darken a repro H-G with stain or brown leather Dye after giving it a few dents. Then finish up with coats of linseed oil.


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madsenshooter KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 1079 Joined: Sep 10^th, 2009	Re: Do I have an Original Carbine or Bannerman Special Reply #10 - Dec 14^th, 2016 at 4:04pm	Print Post
	HughesEnterprises wrote on Dec 6^th, 2016 at 11:11pm: The bore is actually pretty decent considering the exterior condition, it's a little dark with a few light pits, but the rifling is still sharp. Haven't run a brush or patches through it yet, but I expect good things for it. I'll run a few rounds through it soon to test accuracy, but I may end up recrowning the muzzle just to get rid of the dent whether it affects accuracy or not. If I did go the route of getting a reproduction top handguard are there any tricks to getting the finish on the new one to match 100 year old oxidized linseed oil? I have a feeling it'll stick out like a sore thumb. I have read that BLO darkens in sunlight, but it might take considerable sunbathing to catch up with the older stock!


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