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 10 Unique powder and jacketed bullets (Read 7262 times)
Flatlander15
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Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Mar 1st, 2017 at 6:02pm
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Good afternoon,

I was doing research and research for a low pressure load and the local gun store had a guy working who helped me out when starting on 38 special/357.

He did his own looking and came up with a 170 grain 30-30 bullet (just round nose) and 12.4 grains of Unique. The velocity is 1430 feet per second, but there are no figures on pressures unfortunately. This load came out of a 1937 book if that helps.

The only bullets I could find are jacketed so I bought them.
The data states for lead bullets. Will this change anything with pressures? I just want to be safe.

Thank you in advance.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #1 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 6:16pm
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NO! STOP! - That type of load is for low velocity CAST BULLET rounds NOT FOR JACKETED BULLETS.

A jacketed bullet offers more resistance when being 'pushed' through the bore.

(It also sounds like it could be an excessive amount of Unique!

8-9 grains of Unique is more often cited in CAST BULLET loads).

This is not an area of expertise for me. Other KCA Members will have far greater knowledge and experience.
  
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Flatlander15
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #2 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 7:23pm
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Thank you. Oh well, I'm glad I asked first. I loaded up a dummy round and seated the bullet to the groove, the OAL is only 2.816" so based on the guides it seems too short although it cycles great. Well, at least I have the brass sized and primed, part way there.

The load data is from page 373 in the Complete Guide to Hand Loading, from 1937.
  
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Flatlander15
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #3 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 8:17pm
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I bought these bullets

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Looking at the factory loaded 30-40 rounds, these seem wayyy too short. What kind of non self casted bullets do people use to reach over 3" OAL?
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #4 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 10:44pm
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In my view, 12.4 grains Unique with the Hornady #3060 bullet should be a perfectly reasonable combination delivering less than 30,000 psi and about 1700 fps. This bullet is lightly jacketed and lead core, offering little more effective resistance than a cast bullet.

Ignore the position of the bullet's cannelure ("groove") and seat it to a normal Krag OAL (~3.08") for optimal alignment in the magazine. This will yield a seating depth of ~.32" - plenty for adequate neck tension without crimp.

If you're unaccustomed to reduced loading, be sure to check each charged case visually before seating bullets. This charge occupies only about 40% of the powder space, allowing an inadvertent double charge to slip by unless watched carefully. That mistake would yield about 80,000 psi - way too much for comfort!
« Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2017 at 6:42am by Parashooter »  
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madsenshooter
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #5 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 12:47am
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Sound advice, double charges of fast powders wreck rifles and the pieces sometimes kill.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #6 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 1:13am
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'Parashooter' and 'Madsenshooter' are far more knowledgeable in re-loading matters than I.
  
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reincarnated
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #7 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 1:48am
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I trust Sharpe completely.  If you go back to the source, he frequently listed pressures (with the old style primers) for Hercules powders.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #8 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 12:05pm
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Just the same...  I would avoid the Unique and find a powder more suited to a jacketed bullet at Krag pressures.  As others have said, it's very easy to mistakenly double, or even triple a charge when it's that small, and fast burning pistol/shotgun powders tend to do nasty things when the charge is excessive. 

3031 and 4064 seem to work very well with the 30-30 bullets in Krags, but consult a loading manual on this. 

Just my humble $0.02
  
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RichWIS
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #9 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:13pm
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The only reduced loads I have seen for the Krag with jacketed bullets were using SR4759, which is unfortunately discontinued .  There is a lot of data with other rifle powders but these will be closer to full power loads. Cast and jacketed data is different, even a hard cast bullet only has a Brinnell hardness of perhaps 18-20 whereas most jacketed bullets start closer to 115-120. If you do a google search there are a number of suppliers of pre-cast bullets in a variety of diameters.  If using cast suggest you use a .310-.311 diameter as Krag barrels tend to run large and you want to seal the bore to prevent leading.
  
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Flatlander15
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #10 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:48pm
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I had my bore slugged, the tag says it was .302-.3085

The gun shop was understanding at my goof and accepted a return on the jacketed bullets but did not have any cast .30 caliber bullets. I looked on Midway but it seemed they came in quantities of 500. I'll shoot this 100 rounds a year at most so that is a bit much.

I am looking at this bullet :

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I was unable to return the powder so I would like to use up this bottle before buying another pound. Looking into the loads from the same manual, the closest I could find for the above bullet is a 154 grain unspecified bullet (assuming unjacketed based on the above posts) with the seating depth of .425" and with 7 grains of Unique should deliver 1170 FPS.

Does this seem more reasonable?
  
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Flatlander15
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #11 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 5:03pm
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Also, load close to that was listed as 150 grain 30-06 type lead bullet seated to .385 with 14 grains of Unique throwing it out at 1680 FPS with a pressure of 28,400.

I'm confused at the huge difference in powder charges with such a close weight in bullet. Is it due to the design of the bullet itself?

The charge is doubled with only a 510 FPS difference.

Lastly, there is yet another load listing that states only 150 grain 30-06 style bullet so I am not sure if it's jacketed or not. It says 12 grains of Unique gives 1445 FPS with a pressure of 21,800.

Does that mean I need a pointed bullet or are round/flat nose ok?

My apologies again for the obnoxious amount of questions. I really do appreciate the help and guidance from everybody.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #12 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 6:30pm
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I believe you could use that 155 grain Acme bullet with 8 to 9 grains of Unique. This would probably go at close to 1400 FPS and give good 100 yard accuracy.

FWIW - My old Lyman - 44th edition - Reloading Handbook gave a starting load for: 155 Grain Cast/with Gas Check (bullet #311466)
                        
                          Unique 9.0 grains - velocity 1381 FPS

You would probably need a gas check if it was pushed much faster.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #13 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 6:42pm
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The cast bullet to which you refer appear to be a plain-base design.
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Because it lacks a gas-check, we wouldn't expect it to perform well at much over 1400 fps. 8 grains of Unique should give that velocity at under 15,000 psi.

Again, this kind of very-low-density load requires extra attention to avoid double charges. Although an accidental 16-grain load should yield slightly less than normal Krag pressure, it would still be quite a surprise to have one go "boom" instead of "pop".
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Unique powder and jacketed bullets
Reply #14 - Mar 2nd, 2017 at 7:11pm
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There you have it: (Thanks, 'parashooter')

Get 500 Acme bullets and start with 8.0 grains of Unique.

You can experiment by trying 9.0 grains for comparison, if you want.

(There is 7,000 grains to the pound. That's 875 loads @ 8.0 grains per round. That's some cheap shooting).

Just be careful, weigh your charges, and inspect for double charges.
  
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