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External Firing Pin Assembly Differences (Read 6306 times)

RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Mar 1^st, 2017 at 8:48pm	Print Post
	Hello All, I inherited to sporterized Krags years ago (previously posted pics) and have been curious as to why the external part of the firing pin assembly on my Model 1899 is knurled and cylindrical while the one on my Model 1898 and on pics of many other model 1899s the assembly widens into more of a button shape. Wondering if my Dad had some gunsmithing done to the bolt on his 1899. Enclosed pics of them. Thanks, RomeoJim


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #1 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 8:49pm	Print Post
	Here's the 1899


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h8pvmnt KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 52 Location: Gilbert, AZ Joined: Dec 21^st, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #2 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:01pm	Print Post
	That is a correct bolt for a rifle built in certain years. They decided to put that design in production at one point to save money but it turned out to be more expensive to manufacture and was discontinued. Some used to think it was only installed on 1899 Carbines, but current thinking is that they were installed on whatever rifles or carbines were being built during that time. They are less common that the other style but not necessarily rare. I don't have any of my references handy but there is a certain S/N range that corresponds to that straight bolt head. They also could have been fitted to other rifles during arsenal rebuilds. Or by later owners over the years. Its kind of cool and different. Most collectors prefer the look of the other style, i find both to be interesting. If that was original to the 1899 Carbine its very cool.

	Mike W.
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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #3 - Mar 1^st, 2017 at 10:09pm	Print Post
	Thanks for the information Mike! My dad's 1899 is in excellent shape and the bolt and it's pieces all appear to be original. Unlike my grandfather's dull military gray model 1898, the 1899 appears so shiny and new ( though I suspect my dad had it re-blued during the sporterization process) that I doubt it ever saw any real action


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #4 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 2:38am	Print Post
	'h8pvmnt' has it correct. The "headless cocking piece" was the idea of Lt. T.C. Dickson and developed in 1899, to reduce the cost of manufacture. It was approved April 28, 1899, and disapproved October 11, 1900, because it failed to be cheaper. Wild Ass Guess: It would most likely be found on Krag carbines and rifles manufactured from middle of 1899 to end of 1900. Approximately #210,000 to #300,000. BTW - Krag receivers were casehardened, not 'blued or browned'. That silvery-grey mottled appearance is what happens with age. Most of us come to love it.


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #5 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 9:38pm	Print Post
	Great Wild Ass guess on the serial number!! As you can see below the number is 286994


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #6 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 11:27pm	Print Post
	U.S. model 1899 Krag carbine, #286994, likely would have been built around August to October, 1900. The Redfield #102-K is one of my favorite Krag sights. Nice family heirloom! I'd like to see the front-sight.


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #7 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:51am	Print Post
	Thank you for providing those historical pics of the original box and instructions. My grandfather's model 1898 also had a Redfield receiver sight before converting it to an S-K no drill scope mount. You certainly are wealth of info on Krags and I truly appreciate your expertise. My father and grandfather hunted together with their Krags here in northern Michigan back in the 30s. 40s and 50s. When I was young I never thought to ask about their rifles so unfortunately that history is unobtainable. Thanks for providing the information. The Model 1899 front sight is a ramp style and also says Redfield. Unfortunately while target shooting with it for the first time in years last weekend the brass bead somehow fell off the post. I tapped the retaining pin out and removed it from the ramp and found that it was a .22" high sight. Luckily I found a .190" and a .260" original replacement on eBay (JohnnyMiller parts). Since I couldn't get the exact height I ordered the .190". Anxious to get it and install it so I can take it out and re-sight it in with the new front sight. Enclosed a pic of the entire rifle so you could see the front ramp.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #8 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 4:36am	Print Post
	That is a very nice 'classic' looking Deer rifle! Is there some type of forearm screw to prevent the barrel from 'torqueing' upward, when fired? The Krag trigger-guard screws are very close together. Unless the barrel is held down in its channel, by a barrel-band or forearm-screw, the Krag stock is very prone to developing cracks, behind and in front of the magazine. 'RomeoJim' it looks like we are neighbors. I live in Oakland County.


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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #9 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:51am	Print Post
	I'm not too far away either, living near Ann Arbor. Very nice looking sporter!!!


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #10 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 12:07pm	Print Post
	We definitely are neighbors. Though I live in Macomb County now, I grew up in Royal Oak ( which has significantly changed from my childhood days back in the 50s. My grandfather's Model 1898 Krag still has a barrel band that with a screw that retains it from the underside of the stock. However there is no barrel band on my dad's Model 1899. There are two tapped holes on the top of the barrel that I assume are for the original military rear sight. No sign of cracks are apparent in the stock at this point, but I will remove the stock and evaluate it. I noticed that it almost feels like the barrel is free floated. I wonder if it would be wise to glass bed the action to strengthen the stock and reinforce the recoil lug area, unless I could obtain and install an original barrel band and then inlet the stock to accommodate it. Any recommendations? I enclosed a pic of my grandfather's Model 1898 to show the barrel band. This is the one I hunted with after inheriting it back in 1980. Now my youngest son now uses to hunt whitetail with it and loves the fact that it's been in the family for years.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #11 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 12:59pm	Print Post
	Your 'scoped' Krag has 1950-60 'Weatherby Styling'. I would shoot your model 1899 first, before messing with the barrel harmonics. I just wanted you aware of potential strain on the stock. (p.s. - I grew up in the south-end of Royal Oak, a long time ago. I remember 'Snapps' and 'Kings' gun shops, and R.O. Gun - Collectors shows at the VFW Hall. I was in the first class of kids, when Helen Keller opened, and graduated from Dondero in '66 with Glen Frey). BTW - Here is an old simple solution for a 'sporter' Krag barrel-band. I wish it was still made:
	« Last Edit: Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 5:05pm by butlersrangers »

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psteinmayer KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 2391 Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan Joined: Aug 30^th, 2011 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #12 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 5:00pm	Print Post
	I grew up in Bloomfield Township where my dad still lives. I lived in Southfield a hop, skip and jump from Royal Oak for a while after getting out of the Navy before I divorced and moved to Ypsi. The stock on the 1899 looks like a Bishop, which is what I have on my sporter. My Bishop stock is quite beefy in the magazine well/receiver area, and the barrel is not retained by any band. I've fired it for more than 30 years and nary a crack has formed. Now I'd never get away with that with a Krag stock!


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #13 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 1:48am	Print Post
	What a weird coincidence that there are 3 of us on this forum that are so close geographically. My neighborhood friends and I went to Lockman Elementary School and used to play at the site where Helen Keller Junior High was built and went there as well. I graduated in '68 from Dondero and Glenn Frey was in a high school band with one of my friends for aa while. Amazing coincidence. Regarding the Model 1899 : Is there any way to confirm that this is a Bishop stock by examining the internal aspect of the stock where the receiver fits? I'm very glad to hear that one of you has the same or similar stock without experiencing any problem with cracking. My dad used it for hunting for many years and though I see no cracks on the outside of the stock I will remove the stock and check the receiver area very closely for cracks. If none are present I'll leave it as is for now and get it re-sighted in after I install the replacement front sight post. It's a genuine pleasure to be in contact with you both and I appreciate the information you've provided. Jim


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: External Firing Pin Assembly Differences Reply #14 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 2:19am	Print Post
	What a weird coincidence that there are 3 of us on this forum that are so close geographically. My neighborhood friends and I went to Lockman Elementary School and used to play at the site where Helen Keller Junior High was built and went there as well. I graduated in '68 from Dondero and Glenn Frey was in a high school band with one of my friends for aa while. Amazing coincidence. Regarding the Model 1899 : Is there any way to confirm that this is a Bishop stock by examining the internal aspect of the stock where the receiver fits? I'm very glad to hear that one of you has the same or similar stock without experiencing any problem with cracking. My dad used it for hunting for many years and though I see no cracks on the outside of the stock I will remove the stock and check the receiver area very closely for cracks. If none are present I'll leave it as is for now and get it re-sighted in after I install the replacement front sight post. It's a genuine pleasure to be in contact with you both and I appreciate the information you've provided. Jim


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