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kragy
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Help identify
Apr 12th, 2018 at 2:11pm
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Hi All, New to forum, Picked up a krag rifle sporterized the other day for 50$ would like some info on it if anyone can help? The serial # is 34644 1896 springfield armory U.S.. Thank You, Mark
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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Welcome! How about posting some pictures? The price is scary cheap.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 10:10pm
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'kragy' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

Talk about luck - a Springfield Research Service (SRS) hit! (Only a small percentage of U.S. Krag rifles and carbines are in the SRS Data).

Krag, # 34644, was found listed in official documents:

#34644 - 1896 carbine - issued 01/07/1898 to 3rd. Cavalry.

BTW - Your Krag carbine was originally built around June, 1896.

You definitely want to post some (close and well focused) pictures here, for a better assessment and guidance!

If you want to double your $50 'Bucks' ..... I'm your 'Huckleberry'.

Photo of U.S. model 1896 carbines:
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #3 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:21pm
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test post
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #4 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:34pm
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Hi Butlersrangers, site will not allow pics to be posted, comes back error message to large so will try to describe verbally...Rifle here has been "sporterized; the stock has been cut down a couple inches, the rear site has been removed, a redfield peep sight has been installed towards the end of the receiver on the left side, the magazine switch has been removed and the cavalry ring has been removed. Do you think it would be worth it money wise to restore it to original condition? How much do you think it would cost? Also would you have any info on the 3rd cavalry?If not could you point the direction to find some? Thank You very much, Mark
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #5 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:50pm
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Hi Butlersrangers, Did a little research on the 3rd. This rifle fought on san juan hill in cuba? can you verify?
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #6 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:25pm
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This site very definitely allows pictures - all you need to do is reduce the size. If you do not know how to do that, several of us would be happy to perform the trick if they were emailed to us. Chuck (B/R) has done it for many people. I would think your gun would DEFINITELY be well worth restoring.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:22pm
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'kragy' - You definitely should buy a 'power ball' lottery ticket this week.

Your pictures simply have to be smaller than 768 KB to post.

(I do this on my computer with Microsoft Office 2010 program, reducing picture size, by selecting 'for sending in documents').

I shoot pictures for posting with a small Canon Digital Camera using .3 Megapixel setting. IMHO - Close detail shots are better than attempts to get whole gun into picture, when it comes to assessing a firearm.

The 3rd U.S. Cavalry was in Cuba (dismounted) for the Santiago Campaign and involved at Kettle and San Juan Hills (July 1, 1898).

The 3rd Cavalry was in Luzon, Philippine Islands, from October 1899 to 1902, fighting Insurgents.

Your Krag likely saw some action!

Your Redfield receiver ('peep') sight is hopefully one of the 'No-Drill' models, which required no 'new' holes or permanent changes to your receiver. This makes restoration a lot easier.

My advice to you is: "Do no harm". (Don't refinish, discard, or zealously clean anything, until you know how to proceed).

BTW - Most Gun Shops and 'Gunsmiths' are to be avoided. Commonly, they know nothing about Krags. Also, there is a lot of terrible misinformation on the internet.

You would be well advised to buy Joe Poyer's book, "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine", for around $25. It is not without errors, but, it will help you immensely.

If you post some good pictures on the KCA Forum, we can and will help and advise you.

p.s. - My offer of $100 cash money still stands!  Cool

Attached photo shows an example of a Redfield 'no-drill' sight.
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 10:28pm
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Hi Butlersrangers, Sent some pics to Richard which hopefully he will be able to post; the quality may be lacking as the camera used is not the best. Have already ordered the book you advise. The redfield sight on the rifle is the same one as the pic you posted. When you say this rifle probably saw some action and was at san juan hill in cuba do you think it was with the rough riders? Have no intension of altering the rifle in any way and unless it is worthwhile to do so will leave it in it's current configuration. Realize what your saying about gunsmiths and appreciate your generous offer and would like to know what the rifle is worth but would like to keep it in a personal collection for the time being. If you have no idea what the rifle is worth monetarily can you point the right direction for that info? Thank You All once again for your interest, info and help, Mark
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #9 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 3:40am
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Mark - Putting a value on an antique rifle requires a solid idea of its condition, originality, overall appearance and appeal.

Alterations and sanding of wooden gunstock, hurt value. Bore condition and exterior finish & patina are important.

Putting a value on a gun is a judgment call, requiring a trained eye, knowledge and experience.

A complete and correct U.S. model 1896 Krag carbine will often fall into the $1,200 to $2,000 range.

However, you have indicated serious problems with your 'sportered' Krag. The carbine rear-sight is missing. This item will cost $500-$600 to replace!

You have stated the Stock was 'shortened'. This is a rare and expensive item to find.

Your carbine is not a "Rough Rider" (1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry) carbine. Those numbers are known.

You do have a carbine that is documented as being issued to the 3rd U.S. Cavalry. A unit that saw serious action in Cuba and the Philippines. It is tricky to put a value on that.

Your Krag is more interesting than the typical $275-$325 cut-down 'Deer Rifle' Krag.

I look forward to seeing pictures of its condition.

p.s. - I assume you know I am joking with the $100 offer. Hell, I will quadruple what you paid.  Shocked
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #10 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 12:34pm
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Mark: FWIW - The Redfield 'no-drill' rear sight commonly sells for $75 to $100 on ebay. Fortunately, this sight required no alterations to your Krag.

The sight did require the removal of the magazine cut-off switch and the use of a longer (Redfield made) side-plate screw.

A correct side-plate screw and the model 1896 cut-off lever are easy parts to find on ebay and from parts vendors (and should cost around $30, total).

The model 1896 carbine sight is hard to find for sale and expensive.

For display and shooting purposes, the model 1896 rifle sight is similar in appearance and can be bought with mounting screws for around $60.
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #11 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 12:55pm
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Hi Butlersrangers, Thank You again for your interest, info on 34644,  and you generous offer of 200$. From your info seems the rifle is pretty much worth what was paid for it as it needs a new rear sight, mag cutoff, stock. Fortunately the bore is bright and shiny and there is no rust or pitting. Curious of it's historical significance and monetary value but more interested as a collector. Seems the price of restoration would far outweigh 34644's value so will leave it in it's current configuration. Tried to send picks to Richard but once again the message containing them was returned saying it was too large and computer skills here are lacking on reduction so...looks like it will end here. P.S. You seem quite knowledgeable about military weapons, springfields in general so would like to ask a question here that is off topic. Acquired with this collection was a remington 03a3 40552417 vintage 1943. It appears to be in new condition; catch is it has a modified stock and a 16 in barrel. So far the net has produced no info on this weapon, realize it is not a "bushmaster". One source says it was made for the "Philippine campaign" but this is not verifiable. Know there were many of these cut down but this one appears to be uncut original factory barrel in a 16 in length. Could this be a one off or some sort of prototype? Remington society seems to have no info and would like to get a definite answer before replacing the barrel with a 24 in one.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Help identify
Reply #12 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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Mark - Sounds like your Remington 1903A3 has been cut-down for 'Hunting'. I can only imagine the 'Fireball' that comes out of a 16 inch .30-06 barrel.

Lots of people, who dabble in 'Bubba Guns', get real creative with stories, when they are selling them.

Good Pictures are invaluable when trying to ID and assess a collectable gun.

If you want to try to send pictures to me of your carbine or 1903A3 Springfield, I am sending you a PM with my email address.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: Help identify
Reply #13 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 2:19pm
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I received the pics on his third try, will post shortly. I have never seen a 30" carbine stock shortened before! Sad, because it is one of the original thin-wristers too.

As to the '03, be aware that barrels under 18" are HIGHLY illegal. I would pull it and DESTROY it IMMEDIATELY!!!!
  
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kragy
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Re: Help identify
Reply #14 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 2:38pm
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Thanks for the info on the short barrel Dick, will have the smith remove and replace it once determined it is not a factory proto and again for posting the pics when you get a chance.  Chuck, tried to send you the pics of the 03 and the krag to the address you gave but they were returned saying undeliverable.
  
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