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 10 More on this soon! (Read 1912 times)
butlersrangers
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More on this soon!
Sep 18th, 2018 at 7:05pm
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I know you all want one of these!

(photo compliments of Paul Breakey, Esq. - MAAC member and Superintendent of "Michigan Pattern Room").
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #1 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:50am
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Anyone recognizing this?
  
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Knute1
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #2 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 3:47am
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Well, if I can spell it right, it is a thing-a-ma-bob. You take the one end with the fixed, but adjustable, plunger and you set it in the, well you know. And then you take the other end with the spring-loaded plunger, pull the tab to bring it back and set it in the other end of the, well you know. Let go of the tab. Wallah, it is now set in place and ready to do whatever you started out doing. Next slide please.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #3 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 3:52am
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Knute - You are getting warm ....
  
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Knute1
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #4 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:08am
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I'm thinking something for the Navy. Then again something for trench warfare where the rifle is held in place right above the trench and can be manipulated from below out of the line of enemy fire.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #5 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 5:01am
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Invented in Boston, used in many military, naval, and educational programs .....
  
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FredC
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #6 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 1:41pm
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How many guesses allowed?
The second photo made me think of a gun mount, whaling harpoon or ship to ship line throwing? Last photo shows a Krag from the bottom.
Photo 2 does not resemble a Krag trigger guard strange hook near the screw.
Photo 3 Is that the same receiver? if so it is highly modified. The barrel has a hex near the receiver, to make it easy to change? Sight has marks for elevation that would not be compatible with a harpoon or line throwing. Sometimes used as a regular gun?
Combination harpoon and deck gun, that is my guess.
  
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Capt. Frank
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #7 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:17pm
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Side handle, for when the gun gets too hot. That is my answer and I am sticking with it.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #8 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 3:57pm
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??? Ref. from (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Below; image from the pamphlet " The Sub-target Gun Machine"
of "The Sub-target Gun Co." -Hight St., Boston, Mass. U.S.A.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Local Boy
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #9 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:02pm
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Part of the Sub Target practice machine.

Used for marksmanship Training.

Page 196 of the Krag Rifle Story
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #10 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:07pm
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Paul Breakey bought this altered Magazine Lee-Enfield at auction.

It was mistakenly 'billed', as being equipped, "for attachment to an Artillery Piece". (Paul believed this until I showed him his rifle's actual application).

Paul said: "The gun auction also featured a similarly equipped Turkish Mauser".

The contrivance could be fitted to most service rifles, including the Krag and 1903 Springfield.
« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2018 at 4:46am by butlersrangers »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #11 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 8:13pm
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Parashooter and Local Boy are very smart young men.

Thank you Parashooter for including the link to rifleman.org.uk. If that is new resource to a KCA member, there is some really good stuff on that site!

About four years ago, a KCA member had a Krag in .22 caliber. The cocking-piece on his Krag was peculiar and led to a lot of conjecture.

It was eventually realized to be a part of the cable-linkage used on the 'Boston' version of the Cummings Sub-Target Gun Machine.

(The British version, made by Wilkinson Sword Ltd., under license, used an electric-switch, battery and wires, that controlled a solenoid).

Mr. Breakey's rifle is a Magazine Lee-Enfield and retains the bronze fixture that anchored it to a (Wilkinson style) Sub-Target Rifle Machine. The extra holes in the wood stock likely were anchor points for an electric switch.

I appreciate Paul Breakey sharing knowledge and providing photos for the KCA Forum of his rifle and this very rare fixture.

(p.s. Paul's magazine has a strange 'keyhole' opening on the right side. This is  likely for the Hiscock-Parker .22 caliber magazine mechanism and probably not correct for this .303 caliber rig).

  
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Parashooter
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #12 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 8:33pm
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For more background, in a familiar place, see (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

How soon we forget, eh?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #13 - Sep 20th, 2018 at 5:24am
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I have three beliefs regarding the Cummings Sub-Target Gun Machine:

1. No one is now alive, who used and practiced on one.

2. Somewhere in the world, (in a closet, basement, attic, or obscure corner of a military base, naval-yard, retired armory/arsenal, military academy, or New York - Public School), there is a S.T.G.M., in pieces or whole. Likely, no one there has a clue as to what it is or its original function.

3. If enough gun enthusiasts are aware, one day it will be found!

At the present, I am just happy to know that at least one fixture equipped rifle survives and what the fixture looks like in detail.

Attached:

Photos of Cummings 1910 advertisement and Wilkinson catalog.

Machine sketches with rifle 'fixture' and its location marked. (Note - First sketch shows early cable arrangement, later system used linkage). Last sketch shows Wilkinson battery powered solenoid and wire system.

  
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butlersrangers
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Re: More on this soon!
Reply #14 - Sep 20th, 2018 at 6:14am
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I cringe when I envision all the adjustments that had to be made on this device.

Its price of around $500 (with you supplying the rifle and the rifle being 'ruined' by modifications), in the early 1900's, is sobering.

Cheaper systems, other methods, and .22 caliber training rifles on indoor ranges, likely forced the Sub-Target Rifle Machine's demise.
  
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