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 10 Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine (Read 5084 times)
Mike4MSU
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Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:27pm
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I had previously posted some information and photos under the topic My first Krag. Everyone was very knowledgeable and helpful regarding my Krag. One member pointed out that the rear sight screw on my 1901 sight was not correct. I was fortunate enough to find an original screw which I received today. I’m posting several photos showing the dilemma. The tapped hole and screw diameter of the existing (incorrect) screw is too small compared to the one I received (which appears to be the correct screw). Can someone verify I received the correct screw? If so, should I leave the existing screw in there as it must be an original configuration? Should I drill and tap for the larger diameter (correct) screw? Thoughts, comments or opinions?

ADDING THE BELOW INFO

I labeled the 3 screws

1 - This is the front screw that came with the Carbine. I believe it is period and correct. There are no problems with it and it sits correctly in the recessed hole of the sight.

2 - This is the rear sight screw that came with my Krag Carbine and 1901 sight. I don’t know if it’s period and I’ve been told it’s not correct for a 1901 rear sight screw. The threads are clearly thinner than the other two screws and there seems to be unusual wear on the threads. The head on the screw is too wide to sit down into the recessed pocket of the 1901 sight. It does appear to hold the sight on tight.

3 - This is (I’m told) a period correct, not a reproduction, rear sight screw for a 1901 sight. The threads seem to be about the same size and pitch as the front screw which makes me believe it is correct. It will sit in the recessed pocket of the 1901 sight which also leads me to believe it is correct. The threads will not engage with the tapped hole.

Thank you,
Mike
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:00pm by Mike4MSU »  
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FredC
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #1 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:35pm
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Those stake marks around the holes look like someone peened them to take a smaller standard screw.
Original Krag screws have an unusual thread form by todays standards. The pitch and diameter are not standard either. Finding the correct tap would be hard today plus the peening and probably tapping with standard taps will leave you with less metal in the holes there should be. I think I would take some time and approach this cautiously.
My first thought would be to make a correct krag screw out of tool steel and heat treat it and try to "form" the threads with the hardened screw. Not sure if there is enough metal in there for that or if you can pick up the original threads at the entrance. If you do not pick up the threads correctly you will have double threads with none being strong.
Can you label or describe the screws in your photo? Purchased original, and existing screws.
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #2 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:01pm
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Modified the original post to include description of screws. Let me know if additional photos or angles would help.
  
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PeterG
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #3 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:05pm
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Those babies are stripped.

If you can get dies for an M4 (diameter .159”) scres with a 1.0 mm pitch, you can patch them up.  But I have never see a set of dies for this old, French screw size.

Is your rifle original/collectible?  If not, I suggest you re-tap the screw holes in the barrel and open up the holes in the site to match.
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #4 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:22pm
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I plan on shooting it, but would like to keep it as original as possible. It appears to be a legit 1899 carbine with a period replacement stock. I believe it may have gone through an arsenal rework as an engineer carbine. The current screws hold the sight firm in place. Here’s a link to my original post with lots of pics:

(You need to Login to view media files and links)

Mike
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #5 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:41pm
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Butlersrangers posted the following photo of a front and rear screw for an 1898 Krag Carbine with a 1901 sight. The rear screw is clearly longer than the one I received. It’s difficult to tell, but the diameter might also be slightly thinner than the front screw. I’ve heard some 1899 Carbines shipped with an older sight. Maybe this sight was upgraded and it has an earlier tapped hole? We’re some of the rear screws different diameters?
  
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blfrankjr
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #6 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:54pm
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#2 is not right. #1 is correct and #3 looks correct too. 
No disrespect meant towards you but my advice is take it to a professional gunsmith or machinist who knows what they are doing. Little room for error here, barrel steel is soft and I believe that's an original $$$ barrel.
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #7 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 9:01pm
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No offense taken. I wasn’t going to tap the hole myself, I just wasn’t sure if I should have it done. Besides the “if it ain’t broke...” adage, I’m not sure if the “correct” screw was ever used in the rear location as the current screw size is so much smaller (thinner). Starting to wonder if I should leave it. Could it have always been that way?

BTW, it is definitely a period carbine barrel.

Thanks for the input
Mike
  
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FredC
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #8 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 9:55pm
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I have one inclination to keep using the screw that came with it. By chucking on the threads one could turn down the head so it fits in the pocket. It would look reasonably correct.
My reservation here is the OD portion of that screw shows wear.  If it is just catching by the points of the thread it may strip if too much pressure is applied.

Redrilling a new set of holes just forward or behind the originals could be a solution if yours was not so potentially collectable. The hand guard would not fit the sight if this is done.

Building a forming screw/tap to displace the metal to something resembling the original threads is the other option I see. Working with this barrel, it could go wrong as mentioned in my first reply.

Whether the CMP could re-barrel it to carbine specs and not lose collectors value I will let others weigh in on this option.

On that first solution I could do it in 5 minutes with the screw and sight in hand. Others have reduced head size by chucking on the shank with a hand drill and filing. I would not recommend this as the chuck jaws may damage the outside of the threads and cause a marginal fit to strip. If you have a local machine shop that has the right size collet it would take them no longer that it would take me to do it.
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2019 at 12:43am
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Got lucky!

I took a closer look at the threads tonight and it seemed to me that the original threads were still there. The peening clearly deformed the hole and prevented the correct screw from even starting. Also, it appeared there was some "junk" in the threads intended to close/tighten the hole, it was of a brownish color.  Either way, the correct screw is installed and sits just proud of the base, but I’m afraid to try and take it any further.
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #10 - Mar 9th, 2019 at 3:44am
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Spent a little more time on the threads and was able to seat the screw flush with the base.
  
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Playapat
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #11 - Mar 9th, 2019 at 4:11am
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I'm curious to have the experts weigh in, but it looks like you did a terrific job to salvage the situation.
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #12 - Mar 9th, 2019 at 12:13pm
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FWIW: I think you did a great job!  Well done!
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #13 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 2:36am
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Mike - #1 and #3 appear to be original Krag screws.

The four center-punch dimples that bracket the sight holes are not original.

You did a real good job of undoing Bubba's handiwork on your rear-sight screw-holes.

I am proud of you for making your Krag 'more better'.
  
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Mike4MSU
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Re: Looking for advice for my 1899 Krag Carbine
Reply #14 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:28am
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Thank you all for those very kind and generous words. I feel I’m the fortunate and temporary keeper of this and other historically significant arms. While I enjoy shooting them all, I do my best to also keep them original and/or make them whole again.

Now, I have to admit I soiled my pants a little on this one. There was a point when I was working on it where the new (correct) screw wouldn't go in, but the old (incorrect) one wouldn't bite anymore. That's when I wondered why I do the things I do. Thankfully I’m pleased with the results and it all seemed to work itself out in the end.

My buddy finished 60 rounds of his special target loads to get me started. Heading to the range on Monday to finally see how she does. Hopeful that after all this, she shoots straight.

Mike
  
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