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Hardened steel (Read 2271 times)
carbon outlaw
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carbon outlaw

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Hardened steel
Jun 24th, 2019 at 8:39pm
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I have never ran into as hard of a piece of steel as a kran 30/40 screw ever ever !!! I broke a screw off so I garbed a a drill to drill a hole in it so I could use a easy-out and I could not even make a mark in it .. I tried every thing cobalt titanium carbide nothing worked .. it had to be hardened to the infinity rockwell  nothing nada blaa .. So it tried a diamond drill bit and it worked took 10 minutes the only other screw I have scene came out of the Henry Ford plant in the 1920 ... Are all Krag screws this hard .. Or was it over tempered ???
  
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Clcustom1911
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Re: Hardened steel
Reply #1 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 9:14pm
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DAMN that rough!  That's one of my "fears" when going after antique firearm screws and whatnot. It's hardened, but not tempered so it just "breaks" like that.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Hardened steel
Reply #2 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 9:28pm
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IMHO - That side-plate screw is the exception, not the rule, and maybe not an original Krag screw. (The thread looks odd).

I have found U.S. Ordnance screws relatively soft and easy to file, cut, or drill.
  
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FredC
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Re: Hardened steel
Reply #3 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 9:43pm
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Limited experience but the original Krag screws I have seen are not that hard. I see many on this forum with buggered heads from cheap screw drivers, indicating they were not very hard.
Some of the replacement screws I made for mine were from W1 tool steel, then hardened and tempered till I got nice looking to a color blind person oxide colors. The shop made screws were many times harder than original. On my sporter build the trigger screws were run in and out MANY times with no damage to the slots.
Part of your problem maybe the high speed drills. A micron thin hard coating does not help in drilling hard material the underlying material will get deformed and the drill becomes instantly dull. Machine shop grade carbide cutting tools are needed for real hard stuff.
Looking at the end of the broken screw I did not see the fine grain structure that usually goes with a very hard screw. Try a known sharp file on it. If it skids across without cutting, it is really hard.
« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2019 at 1:40pm by FredC »  
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FredC
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Re: Hardened steel
Reply #4 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 9:55pm
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Just for reference take a look at this John Deere axle shaft. This was from a machine with 80 hours on it that I was asked to take a look at. The shaft had a dense fine grains structure on the outside and on the splines indicating a very hard surface. The grain structure in the center was coarse indicating a softer tougher result. Exactly what you want in a tractor axle. We concluded the operator side stepped the clutch with the wheels buried and the engine revved up. Was a good thing the axle broke instead of blowing the whole transmission.
  
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FredC
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Re: Hardened steel
Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2019 at 2:31pm
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An example of removing a very hard screw. I dulled a couple of quality drills using a hand held drill motor on this broken off stud in a lathe bed. Only 3 studs are used and this one was so hard I thought it was a broken off form tap. The other studs were missing when I got this lathe so I did not even know what was broken off in there.
Since the first attempts failed I bolted the bed to the mill table and milled a flat area on the screw then drilled it with a carbide spade drill that I sharpened for left hand rotation. After a while the bit grabbed onto the stud and screwed it out. Carbide drills require a rigid set up or they will shatter like glass and the mill allowed a heavy accurate feed so it did not just rub on the surface and make it harder. These carbide spade drills are sold as "die drills" for tool and die makers to drill through hardened die sections.

Back to Carbon Outlaw, a close up picture of the threads would help diagnose if the screw is original. And a brush with a file will tell if it really is that hard.  Your diamond drills mention grit size so that would indicate diamond dust held on with a nickel plating like a diamond knife sharpening hone? If you drilled that with a hand drill you are a better man than me. For a original screw to be that hard would mean it was actually heat treated and missed the tempering operation. To me that would be a surprise as they ones I have seen are so soft I would not have guessed they had any treatment.
  
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