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 10 M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock? (Read 11550 times)
darkloch
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M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Feb 18th, 2015 at 5:32pm
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I've been tasked to restore this rifle for an estate and am curious about the cutout in the stock and whether I should restore or leave them alone.  If, indeed, the cuts were made to mate the rifle to a Cummings sub-target machine I suspect I'll leave it the way it is…interesting story.

What do you experts think?  Thanks!
  
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Ned Butts
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #1 - Feb 18th, 2015 at 9:07pm
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I would leave it as is, that is part of it's history.
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #2 - Feb 18th, 2015 at 9:20pm
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I agree, but, looking at the rear sight, makes me want to ask a question: how long is the barrel. and what is the serial number (the first 5 digits would be enough). Many thanks.
  
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reincarnated
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #3 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 7:58am
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Is the rust part of history?
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #4 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:24pm
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I don't think so - plenty to do there before worrying about the stock - which i would definitely leave alone.
  
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darkloch
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #5 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 6:29pm
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Reasonably sure now that this Krag was modified for the Cummings sub-target gun machine.  Note attachment points on barrel.  Unfortunately the hole are tapped and threaded so deep that I suspect it would be dangerous to fire today.  Two of the holes are directly beneath the chamber.

With respect to the rust, Give me a chance, I'm old and slow but I can be trained!  BTW the stock has cleaned up beautifully…practically mint!
  
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Dick Hosmer
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #6 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 6:40pm
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And, what IS the s/n, please? Thank you.
  
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darkloch
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #7 - Jun 2nd, 2015 at 10:04pm
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Sorry guys, time got away from me.
SN is 399280
Cleaned up rather well, pity it's not shootable…or at least I wouldn't.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #8 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 5:17am
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'darkloch':

Thanks for posting pictures of the Model 1898 Krag barrel, showing how the armature of the Sub-Target Gun Machine was attached. This was a more aggressive alteration, than I originally envisioned, and appears to compromise the strength of the barrel. It is too bad that your rifle no longer has the barrel armature and 'striker linkage' that joined it to the Sub-Target Gun Machine.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #9 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 11:03am
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You could always re-barrel it for shooting, but I personally would leave it as is.  Much to valuable!  Great piece of history there...
  
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1911Ron
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #10 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 12:02pm
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So what was the purpose of this device?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #11 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 6:18pm
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1911Ron:

Short Answer - Virtual Target Shooting.

Longer Answer - The Sub-Target Gun Machine was a $600 device, that allowed training in Rifle Shooting skills and provided competition without ammunition or Range facilities.

The device worked something like a pantograph. A rifle was fixed to the apparatus. Through the use of counter-weights and pivots, the "shooter' supported the weight of the rifle and could move it freely. The "Shooter" aimed the unloaded rifle at a target placed a moderate distance away. The machine had been adjusted or calibrated so that a sharp "needle" moved in alignment with the axis of the rifle's bore. When the "Shooter" had the rifle's sights aimed and pulled the trigger, the needle would pierce a miniature target placed in a holder on the Gun Machine. The strike on the miniature target would give an accurate indication of the sight picture on the distant target at the moment of "Dry Firing". The results were accurate and repeatable, which allowed for competition and skill building.

The Sub-Target Rifle Machine saw use from about 1900 to 1918. In the U.S., The New York City - Public School Athletic League put 'Gun Machines' in all the High Schools and ran a huge competition program. The U.S. Military Academies had machines. In Great Britain and Canada, Military Schools and the Royal Navy (aboard ships) made use of the Machines.  The U.S. Machines used mechanical linkages and cables to power the 'needle'. The British machines (Wilkinson) used a battery powered solenoid.

The attached post-card is actually a "Sub-Target" with 'pin pricks' and a score of 20 (3,3,3,3,3,3,2,0,0,0,), "Fired" in the U.S.A. (An NRA Postal Match?). 
« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2015 at 10:51pm by butlersrangers »  
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1911Ron
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Re: M1898 with sub-target gun machine stock?
Reply #12 - Jun 6th, 2015 at 10:07am
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Interesting.  Thanks!
  
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