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 25 Cracked Stock (Read 14089 times)
psteinmayer
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Cracked Stock
Apr 5th, 2015 at 3:22pm
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Ok, I've found a crack.  Yesterday while working on a lighter load and finding a new POI, I discovered a crack in the wrist area of my Krag.  This morning, while cleaning, I confirmed that the crack goes from under the magazine well area back on both sides.  I can actually flex the stock to slightly open the crack, making it very easy to see.  I need to fix this as this Krag is my CMP Match favorite!!!  Most of you who know me know how important this particular Krag is to me.  I've attached a couple pictures to show the cracked area.

Here are a few questions:
1. This Krag has history, having been used in WW1 in 1917/1918, and I am reluctant to refinish the stock... but if it needs to be refinish to fix it, then I am not completely opposed.  Should I be refinishing it?  Money is a real problem for me right now...
2. Having regularly oiled the rifle when cleaning, I know that there is oil in the cracked area, and when squeezing the stock, can actually see oil seep from the crack.  Will this affect the fix?
3.  Money is a real problem for me... but am I looking at putting this stock away permanently and replacing it???

Please help, as I am quite bewildered at this point.

Thanks all
  
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reincarnated
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #1 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 4:32pm
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I have seen other Krag stocks with similar cracks.  Given the physical characteristics of wood, the design of our beloved Krags, recoil, etc., I think the cracks are not uncommon. 

The crack will only get worse, but probably not at an alarming rate.  But will the crack impair accuracy? 

Appears that you have a collector's & historian's & Krag Lover's dilemma.  Your Krag has some known provenance.  As you wrote, if you refinish the stock, the originality will be lost.  If you replace the stock, setting aside the original, there is a distinct risk that the original stock will be lost. Plus, your Krag with provenance becomes just another repaired Krag.  We are just the present maintenance staff.  What will happen when we are no longer in charge? 

One temporary solution would appear to be retire the Krag and shoot another.  Then, when the djinn of money smiles again, you have a grand excuse to search for another Krag.

OTOH, one more summer at the range will probably not make things very much worse.
  
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SgtSki
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #2 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 5:33pm
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Did you drop it?  If not there may be an problem with the rear receiver wall or tang inletting which causes unequal distribution of recoil when fired.  If the latter is the cause I would not shoot it again until it was repaired it could come apart after one shot or 20 shots.
  
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cdagnese
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #3 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 9:19pm
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I've repaired this type of crack (very common) before with epoxy resin.  The majority of the recoil transfer to the stock is at the aft wall of the magazine well, which may generate a similar crack from an uneven fit.  The fix requires some release agent to spray on the contact area and some common epoxy.  I used a dremel tool to rout out the rear face of that area from the crack  upwards about1/4 inch and almost to the edges of the stock on both sides.  Go as deep towards the butt of the stock as you can.  1 1/2 to 2 inches will work.  You could also install a brass screw from the bottom vertically just behind of the routed out area to further stabilize the stock and cover the head with a wood plug.  After spraying the area on the receiver and magazine box with release agent, fill up the routed out area with epoxy, assemble and torque the rifle onto the stock and let it set up.  Not only will this repair your original stock, but it will also probably be slightly more accurate with the partial glass bedding at the back of the magazine box.

Note:  The routing should be done from the inside of the stock. at the bottom of the magazine well where the crack begins, and extend to about 1/8 inch of the exterior edges of the crack on the left and right sides of the stock.  With the rifle mounted on the stock, the repair would be invisible.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #4 - Apr 5th, 2015 at 9:42pm
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All well and good (except maybe the part about inserting a metal screw), but it will detract from the originality of the stock. While wood screws are a time honored repair, the fact that there will be a wood plug hiding it can (and usually is) as unsightly as a naked screw head. I know that my eye would be drawn to it every time I picked up the rifle, and would be glaringly obvious to anyone giving the rifle a close examination. If the joint is reasonably clean, the epoxy will effect a bond as strong if not stronger than the wood surrounding it- and that's good enough- without hogging out extra surface area.

I outlined how I would effect a repair on this crack over on the "other" forum, where I saw it before dropping in for a visit here.

One thing I forgot to add is don't be tempted to use CA (superglue). I tried that a few times on cracks and always eventually ended up re-doing them with epoxy. If it's a fresh crack with zero oil down inside it, then good old yellow wood glue would be ok. I would hedge my bets and use epoxy in any event though.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #5 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 12:30am
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There is definitely oil in the crack area...  I can squeeze the stock and some oil can be observed oozing out.

The less I have to hog out, the better.  This stock has history, and I would prefer not to alter it more than necessary to affect a good strong repair.  I do shoot this rifle regularly in CMP vintage matches... and my wife has told me that it would be cheaper to replace the stock than to buy another rifle (wives don't understand anything, LOL).  Anyway, I have every intention on repairing this stock, whether I continue to use it, or put it into storage and use a replacement for matches!  Either way, any advice on a good strong repair is absolutely welcome!!!
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #6 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 2:11am
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Paul: I would use an 'Accra-glass' bedding kit. I would flex the stock to open the crack and get as much epoxy compound in there as possible before clamping (or weighing down the stock ends) to tightly close the crack. After the epoxy has hardened for a couple days, I'd drill some ('invisible') holes from the trigger-guard mortise into the action area (between the trigger-guard screw holes and trigger slot). I'd fill these holes with hardwood dowel plugs and epoxy. I'd also consider drilling a small blind hole in the heavy wood on both sides of the trigger slot and perpendicular to the crack. These holes would be hidden by the action or trigger-guard. I would insert epoxy and steel roll-pins into these holes. I'd finish up by glass bedding the rear of the action in the stock. Just some ideas. I think, with care, your stock is salvageable and repairs would be hidden.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #7 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 4:01am
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The repair described by gnoahhh on the other forum would be allowable under CMP "as-issued" rules. Some of the others would not. The action should contact only integral wood. Just about anything that might be considered an added bedding enhancement is prohibited.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #8 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 4:18pm
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Paul: "gnoahhh's" advice seems good and "Parashooter" gives a wise caution, regarding rules & bedding enhancements.

Your stock crack is in a good place for invisible repair. I envision epoxy bedding compound in the crack, then, a counter-sunk brass wood screw, from the bottom of the trigger guard mortise, to close the crack and prevent its spread. (Locate the screw, behind the trigger slot and in front of the rear guard-screw. Cut the tip of the brass screw, that projects into the receiver inletting and grind flush).

If your work repairs and stabilizes a stock crack, rather than enhancing original bedding, I imagine it complies with the rules.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #9 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 7:09pm
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When in doubt, consult the official rule book -

4.2 As-Issued Military Rifles
4.2.1 General As-Issued Military Rifle Requirements
The following rules apply to all as-issued U. S. and foreign military rifles
unless specific exceptions are noted in these rules:
. . .
Stocks must be as-issued stocks or replacement stocks with the same
dimensions. Laminated stocks and stocks made of synthetic materials
are prohibited. Broken or cracked as-issued stocks may be repaired
with the use of epoxies or other chemical adhesives, provided the
original as-issued stock dimensions are not changed and no epoxy,
adhesive or reinforcing material is used in or on any of the bedding
surfaces for the rifle action or barrel.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #10 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 11:25pm
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I'm not going to do anything that will alter the bedding areas.  I'm sure that my fix will work great, and all will be well.
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #11 - Apr 7th, 2015 at 10:41pm
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Ok...  I've made a couple small wooden wedges to hold the crack open.  The most I could get the crack opened is to approximately 0.02 in., so I'm glad it's not too bad.  I used an insulin syringe to inject acetone into the cracked areas, and used compressed air (from a computer cleaning can) to aid in the drying.  I'm going to allow it to sit for 24 hours, and then repeat this. 

I'm then going to carefully drill a small hole (about 0.1 in.) on each side of the stock from the magazine well rearward along the crack about 1/4 inch from the sides of the stock and 1 in. long.  This will allow me to be able to inject epoxy into the cracked area which should spread throughout the crack.  I'll clamp it and let it cure for a while.

After the epoxy cures for a few days, I'm going to drill two holes - between the trigger slot and each trigger guard screw, and epoxy a hard wood dowel in each hole, which should provide added strength to the repair.  The dowels will be carefully measured so as to not touch the action in any way, so I don't violate any CMP rules. 

I'll photo-document the entire repair and share with everyone as I go.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #12 - Apr 8th, 2015 at 3:21am
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psteinmayer wrote on Apr 7th, 2015 at 10:41pm:
. . . I'm going to drill two holes - between the trigger slot and each trigger guard screw, and epoxy a hard wood dowel in each hole, which should provide added strength to the repair. . .


If I'm understanding correctly, it seems the dowels won't do anything useful that isn't already being done by the two sturdy steel screws clamping the triggerguard over that area - and the added holes could be a source of weakness if the glue fails on the dowels.

Cracks of this sort happen because the stock "hinges" at its weakest  point - below the magazine and forward of the triggerguard. Good glue coverage in the cleaned crack should be enough. (If you can clean the crack thoroughly, that "good old yellow wood glue" might be better than epoxy - if only because it will penetrate better and doesn't creep after setting.)
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #13 - Apr 8th, 2015 at 11:14am
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You might be right about that.  I was just thinking of some added lateral strength.  I'm not set on that part of it.  I think the rest of my repair plan is good though.  Where is everyone on the wood glue vs two-part epoxy?  I'm just concerned about wood glue where the stock might eventually get wet (like if it's raining)... or if I can't get the oil dried out of the entire crack.  Obviously, I'm concerned and want this repair to be as strong as possible.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: Cracked Stock
Reply #14 - Apr 8th, 2015 at 4:28pm
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When in doubt, use epoxy. Yellow glue is ok, but the integrity of the joint depends on coating both surfaces thoroughly. Since you have very narrow confines in which to spread the glue around following those protocols would be problematic. Just get the epoxy in there and close and open the joint a few times to squeeze it around and about in there. Yellow glue also requires more clamping pressure for a good bond than is necessary with epoxy- something to take into consideration given the nature of the object of art you're dealing with. Smiley

I commented about the need for auxiliary dowels in your other thread. Basically, a well put together epoxy joint (such as you appear to be achieving) will be stronger than the surrounding wood, obviating the need for mechanical support.
  
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