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 25 Trouble on First Outing (Read 11395 times)
Culpeper
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #15 - May 29th, 2016 at 2:43am
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I wonder if Annapolis has returned from the Grand Adventure.

Are ya' back yet, brother?

  

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Culpeper
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #16 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 12:07am
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Yesterday Annapolis and I met up to troubleshoot his rifle.  I noticed and as he has pointed out that the gun is not just as slick as others have described about the smoothness of the Krag.  Cycling without ammo the bolt is slicker than whale snot.  I will leave that aside for the moment.

I loaded factory Remington ammo in it and ran it through five shots.  I found I would have to be definite of my purpose to pick up a round and get it chambered.  I noticed Annapolis had the similiar issue when I had him run it and I observed.

He also had a problem with a round not extracting but the next round behind the chambered round was positioned incorrectly with the point angled wrong on the side plate preventing extraction.

I brought 3140 with me.  It is my unmodified Krag and he had brought 177xx which is a 1894 modified to 1896.  We compared the bolts and the extractors and I could not discern any difference.  Looking back I believe I would bring a couple of my other krags on the second go round.

Towards the end of the evaluation before we switched to shooting our other guns I ran ten rounds of Winchester through 177xx and the ninth round got hung up and would not chamber.   I do know a couple of my Krags will not chamber a round (I forget which because it has been eleven years after all) every now and then but others elsewhere think it is a function of the pointed bullets not being fed correctly due to nose shape.  I will load up a bunch Sierra 220s so one variable is taken out of the equation.

Like I told Annapolis, I am not the krag expert but we can work the issue and find the problem.



  

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Annapolis
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #17 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 1:14am
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Folks:  what Culpepper forgot to mention is how courteous and patiently helpful he was during our morning of shooting. He is a splendid instructor and a genuine enthusiast of the Krag. 

Annapolis

PS:  I suspect many of us didn't know he is also something of a Constitutional scholar.  jtr
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #18 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 11:07am
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Paul (Culpepper) is a splendid fellow!  He traveled to Michigan and met up with me at Cabelas in Dundee, and we spend a fantastic hour and a half just talking and sharing coffee (Ok, I had the coffee, he had a pop)!  I look forward to meeting up at Perry next month to shoot side by side, along with my Son and Madsenshooter!

Now, to the problem at hand:  There is many cases of Krags having problems chambering rounds with spitzer bullets from the magazine well.  Some will and some won't without problems... or just won't altogether!  My Krags will, however if I don't crimp the bullets, the bullets will telescope into the case neck every single time.  This is an inherent quality of the Krag design, as it was designed for round nosed bullets.  There have been cases of some (less than honorable) gunsmiths trying to modify the side plate and/or chamber trying to improve this, but all that does is make it worse. 

My advise would be to try some round nosed bullets if possible, and see if the feeding improves any.  Also, you might check to see if the rounds were positioned correctly when placed in the mag well (just speculating because it has happened to me).

I forgot to ask... was the magazine cutoff in place or removed?  That will also sometimes hamper proper feeding.
  
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Culpeper
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #19 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 2:42pm
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Magazine cutoff is on the rifle and no parts are missing.  I also gave Annapolis my second Steinmayer's Deluxe Krag Charger to have for his Krag.  I won't say there is a human error component to this problem but I figure one less variable to deal with would get us closer to the solution.

  

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butlersrangers
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #20 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 7:29pm
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This has gotten more complicated.

We started with a bolt that would 'hang-up', even on occasion while single-loading a cartridge.

Now, it is coupled with a magazine 'feed problem'.

IMHO - First the bolt 'hanging-up', on single-loaded cartridges, needs to be solved. When that is rectified, then magazine feeding & ammunition issues can be addressed.

As I now understand it: 'Annapolis' has a model 1892 Krag-Jorgensen, that was given the model 1896 'updates'.

This introduces quite a range of Parts possibilities: 4 different magazine cutoffs (all should work), 3 different Bolts & combinations of different bolt sub-assemblies (most should work), 2 different magazine side-plates (1892 & 1896) and their variations, and the possibility of the wrong (1898) follower-assembly having been installed. There is also the possibility of worn, broken or damaged parts.

(Of course, when this model 1892 Krag was updated in the early 1900s, the ammo it was tested with was the 220 grain U.S. Army rounds).

  
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Culpeper
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #21 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 3:25am
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I think I have identified the main problems and I am leaning towards bullet profile.  I could be wrong but will know more when Annapolis and I run some round nose bullets in the old girl then I will know if I am mistaken or am proven much smarter than I think I am by a lucky guess.

I am loading up my very first krag rounds tonight with a pound of 4350 from the pile.  I won't be able to get with Annapolis until next week because I have a wedding to go to in another souverign land.
  

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psteinmayer
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #22 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 10:50am
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A Pound???  How you gonna get that much powder in one case???  LOL

Let us know how things work out on this, as I'm sure that the results will help solve problems for many others too!

  
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Culpeper
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #23 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 3:00pm
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Oh that's right.  Annapolis and I forgot to mention that we rebarreled both of the krags to accept a wildcat round called .30-40-75mm.  We found a couple dozen 75mm cases in an antique shop.  These are for the French 75mm guns used in the Great War.

We had some dies made to reform the cut down cases and put a new shoulder on it.  The neck is then reshaped to look like the Krag cartridge minus the base.

Velocity is 2900 and the effective range is eleven kilometers (it's partially French afterall)

Yeah.  A pound of powder.  Sheesh. Some people's kids.

Smiley


  

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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #24 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 4:15pm
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>~~~~ Snicker ~~~~<  Cheesy
  
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Re: Trouble on First Outing
Reply #25 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 7:43pm
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I think 92 sideplates help with sptizer feeding in mine.  22018 I think was made with a 96 sideplate that I replaced with a 92 and it works better.  But it can still be fussy about OAL and point configuration.  Pushing on the shoulder of the cases before closing the magazine gate helps too, raises the nose higher.  With one follower I have to, with another I don't have to to.
  
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