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"Lyman sight pat. June 25 96" (Read 5064 times)
Artistsrifleman
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"Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
May 3rd, 2016 at 6:05pm
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My rifle, serial 370330 carries an additional receiver mounted sight that has been inlet to the stock just in front of the magazine cutoff.   It carries the Lyman patent details on the slide shaft, and the eyepiece has a fold down aperture which when folded reveals a simple battlesight.   I cannot find any reference to this sight in Poyer's book or Brophy's.   How common is it, and what is its backgouund?   Any info would be much appreciated.   I tried to add two photos to this post but the file size was too large to be accepted.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2016 at 6:35pm
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Undoubtedly an aftermarket add-on. Such sights were never an issue item, hence not finding it in Krag military rifle reference books. Being a Lyman, it probably also required two screw holes to be drilled and tapped into the receiver, further detracting from originality in addition to the wood inletting.

Is it a cut-down sporting rifle?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #2 - May 3rd, 2016 at 7:30pm
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'Artistsrifleman' - It sounds like your aperture receiver sight is a Lyman #34 or #33. The #34 had 'screw adjustable windage' and would accept a screw in eye-piece. The #33 had 'friction adjustable windage' and was not threaded for a screw-in 'peep'.

As 'gnoahhh' suggested, these sights required two new drill & tap holes in the Krag receiver.

Lyman manufactured and offered this sight from approximately 1895 to 1943. It was adapted to the U.S. Krag, 1903 Springfield, Lee-Enfield, and Remington-Lee.

Although not rare to see in North America, the #33 & #34 Lyman sights are interesting to sight collectors and get priced from $125 to $275.

It would be interesting to see pictures of your Krag Sporting rifle and know the story of how it got to the UK.
  
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Artistsrifleman
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #3 - May 3rd, 2016 at 8:59pm
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Thank you, this explains the lack of mention in my books.

No, apart from the Lyman sight it seems as issued so far as I can see.   With the number 370330 I guess it must be late issue - probably late 1901.

gnoahhh wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 6:35pm:
Undoubtedly an aftermarket add-on. Such sights were never an issue item, hence not finding it in Krag military rifle reference books. Being a Lyman, it probably also required two screw holes to be drilled and tapped into the receiver, further detracting from originality in addition to the wood inletting.

Is it a cut-down sporting rifle?

  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #4 - May 3rd, 2016 at 11:07pm
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'Artistsrifleman' - Your Krag, #370330, would have been built around January, 1902.

Is there a dated 'acceptance cartouche' on your stock, just behind the magazine cut-off lever?

It is unusual to see a Lyman #34 rear-sight on a Krag that is still in 'military configuration'. It suggests someone had it set up for Target Shooting, but, in the U.S., Service Matches were fired with Issue Sights.

Here is a photograph of U.S. Engineers in G.B., circa 1917. They must have been an early contingent given their obsolete equipment.
  
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Artistsrifleman
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #5 - May 4th, 2016 at 9:24pm
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Useful to have the photos (thank you) and yes, its the 34 version.   There are no distance markings on the sight staff so when I shot it today at Bisley I used the service sight instead.
My current load is 26.7 gn of H4198 behind an 185gn Lapua Scenar SPBT bullet.   The rifle came from a Welsh firearms dealer at a Bisley arms fair a few years ago.   We don't see many Krags in England.   Apart from the Lyman sight the rifle is pretty well as issued and hasn't been sporterised.   I can't get my photos small enough in file size for this chatroom to accept.

butlersrangers wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 7:30pm:
'Artistsrifleman' - It sounds like your aperture receiver sight is a Lyman #34 or #33. The #34 had 'screw adjustable windage' and would accept a screw in eye-piece. The #33 had 'friction adjustable windage' and was not threaded for a screw-in 'peep'.

As 'gnoahhh' suggested, these sights required two new drill & tap holes in the Krag receiver.

Lyman manufactured and offered this sight from approximately 1895 to 1943. It was adapted to the U.S. Krag, 1903 Springfield, Lee-Enfield, and Remington-Lee.

Although not rare to see in North America, the #33 & #34 Lyman sights are interesting to sight collectors and get priced from $125 to $275.

It would be interesting to see pictures of your Krag Sporting rifle and know the story of how it got to the UK.

  
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Artistsrifleman
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #6 - May 4th, 2016 at 9:31pm
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Yep - 1903.   As the rifle came from an arms fair at the English home of target shooting (Bisley) I guess it was set up as a target rifle over here.   We don't see many Krags.  Nice photograph - thanks.   Perhaps a few of them went home without their rifles!

butlersrangers wrote on May 3rd, 2016 at 11:07pm:
'Artistsrifleman' - Your Krag, #370330, would have been built around January, 1902.

Is there a dated 'acceptance cartouche' on your stock, just behind the magazine cut-off lever?

It is unusual to see a Lyman #34 rear-sight on a Krag that is still in 'military configuration'. It suggests someone had it set up for Target Shooting, but, in the U.S., Service Matches were fired with Issue Sights.

Here is a photograph of U.S. Engineers in G.B., circa 1917. They must have been an early contingent given their obsolete equipment.

  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #7 - May 4th, 2016 at 11:33pm
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After Dunkirk, during the darkest days of WW2, when it appeared Britain would be defending itself against an imminent German Invasion, the request was made for Americans to donate Arms.

All types of useful arms and optics were donated and shipped from the U.S.A. to G.B. for its defense.

Possibly, your intriguing Krag-Jorgensen arrived in Britain via an American Civilian donation. (If only it could talk)!
  
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Artistsrifleman
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #8 - May 10th, 2016 at 8:36pm
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Thanks again Butlersrangers.   Yes, I have heard of this, but didn't make a connection with the Krag.   This seem the most logical answwer.   If only rifles could talk - what a number of questions that would answer.   One of my others is a Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifle, which must have interesting stories to tell.....

butlersrangers wrote on May 4th, 2016 at 11:33pm:
After Dunkirk, during the darkest days of WW2, when it appeared Britain would be defending itself against an imminent German Invasion, the request was made for Americans to donate Arms.

All types of useful arms and optics were donated and shipped from the U.S.A. to G.B. for its defense.

Possibly, your intriguing Krag-Jorgensen arrived in Britain via an American Civilian donation. (If only it could talk)!

  
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butlersrangers
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Re: "Lyman sight pat. June 25 96"
Reply #9 - May 10th, 2016 at 9:40pm
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'Dang, Artistsrifleman' - A Krag and a Pennsylvania rifle in the U.K. ........ You have 'Yankee Tendencies' !
  
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