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 10 Annealing (Read 305 times)
bote
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Annealing
Nov 2nd, 2018 at 4:22pm
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I recently started annealing cases with the Ballistic Recreations setup that uses a Lee precision melter and potassium salts.  The entire setup cost less than $150 and it's simple to use and consistent.  I would have never considered annealing but my scoring partner at Talledega told me about it and I thought I'd give it a try.  The kit comes with a case holder made to fit the Lee melter, a thermocouple/temp gage and a jar of potassium salts.
  
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FredC
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Re: Annealing
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2018 at 6:28pm
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Thanks for the info. I had tried using molten lead setting the heat with a thermometer. Then coated the case necks with oil before dipping them in the molten lead. The lead coated the case necks sometimes and made a mess.
I assume the potassium salts cause no corrosion or embrittlement if you clean them quickly?
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: Annealing
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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There is a much simpler way to anneal.  I just use the trimming case holder to hold them in my drill, and then use a small butane torch to heat the necks to the shoulder while they spin.  As soon as the brass changes color to just past the shoulder, drop them into a pan and let them cool.  Been doing it this way for years, and I've got more than 20 reloads on some of my brass!
  
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carbon outlaw
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Re: Annealing
Reply #3 - Nov 5th, 2018 at 12:13am
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I use map gas just because it heats it up faster .... Another thing I do is to just do neck recizing how I do this is using ideal Lyman 310 30-40 krag neck recizer and use a adapter so I can use it in my RCBS reloading press ... Really the only time I have had trouble is using someone else's used brass ... Some brass I have reloaded hundreds of time ... Just be good to your brass ...
  
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FredC
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Re: Annealing
Reply #4 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 3:32pm
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I tried matching the colors on new factory annealed cases and found it difficult. I took a color blindness test and the result labeled me "extreme deutan" the report said that I see peanut butter as green and I said "Yeah, isn't green" also said I see green light as white, always wondered why they were called green lights. My brother took a color blindness test when he was in grade school and he was extremely color blind turns out I am worse than him, just did not know it.
So the colors the rest of you see when annealing may not be what I see.
A fast fool proof way to anneal case necks is welcome to me.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Annealing
Reply #5 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 4:14pm
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'Real Men' anneal by touch!
  
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FredC
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Re: Annealing
Reply #6 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 7:21pm
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Too funny!

I guess I could ask you to make a youtube video showing me how.
  
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Re: Annealing
Reply #7 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 9:00pm
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carbon outlaw wrote on Nov 5th, 2018 at 12:13am:
I use map gas just because it heats it up faster .... Another thing I do is to just do neck recizing how I do this is using ideal Lyman 310 30-40 krag neck recizer and use a adapter so I can use it in my RCBS reloading press ... Really the only time I have had trouble is using someone else's used brass ... Some brass I have reloaded hundreds of time ... Just be good to your brass ...


Hundreds ?  Sorry, but I find that very hard to believe.
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Annealing
Reply #8 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 10:04pm
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butlersrangers wrote on Nov 6th, 2018 at 4:14pm:
'Real Men' anneal by touch!


Like this -

  
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Re: Annealing
Reply #9 - Nov 6th, 2018 at 11:46pm
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You da Man Para!!!
  
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bote
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Re: Annealing
Reply #10 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 5:10pm
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The potassium salts rinse off when you quench.  I have a metronome app on my iPhone and set it for 60 beats per minute.  The first "beat" is a higher frequency than the following 3 so I set the case in the holder on that one.  I set the temp for 1000F and leave the case in the bath for 4 seconds.  The heat transfer from the liquid salt bath is consistent and efficient.  The case holder sets them at the correct height in the bath.  It has places for two cases but I only do one at a time.  I can anneal 200 cases in 30 minutes or less and every one looks exactly the same.  I know there are folks achieving great results with a flame but there is no learning curve with this method.  Just remember you are dealing with a 1000F liquid; safety is paramount.  I clamp my lead pot to my bench, wear clothing appropriate for welding, long leather gloves and a face shield.  Had someone not shown me this method I would have never undertaken annealing.  I used to give my 10x cases away to a friend who annealed (sorry, lol Angry). 
  
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Re: Annealing
Reply #11 - Nov 7th, 2018 at 11:49pm
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Parashooter I probably have done a few by hand that way. Also made a holder for the cordless drill. I have used tempil markers and they are difficult to see when they actually run, for color blind me. I put a bunch of Tempil marks on some brass to anneal later and found out the material is very corrosive on brass. I never felt I could get the angle and temp of the flame consistent enough with the torch and again my eyes do no see the colors like others would.
I have accidentally picked up hot objects that have been in the oven and never been very good at judging the temperature as I let the drop. I thought that was what Butlersrangers meant. My fingers are not calibrated for 650 to 700 degrees. Once the guy on the lathe in front of me threw a hot chip over the machine, it was berylium copper and about that hot. Landed between my glasses and upper eyelid. As it was cooling off against my skin it was vibrating and buzzing, thought an angry wasp was in there. Could not take the glasses off fast enough and each curl of the chip burned the skin black.

Bote, I looked up several references to your system and all are doing 950 to 1000F. Do you know why so hot? References say 650F will actually anneal but it takes too much time and the extended time will allow heat to get to the rest of the case. So 700F is recommended to anneal quickly without the heat damaging the body of the case. I would expect a molten liquid to be as close to immediate on the transfer time as anything could be.
Also where did you get your supplies?
Thanks, Fred

  
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Re: Annealing
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 5:14am
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I bought a "kit" from Ballistic Solutions in Canada.  I think it was about $90 plus shipping. 

The recommended procedure is 500-550C for 4-7 seconds.  I set mine at 520C and soak them 4 seconds.  There is a distinct color change.  I agree that the heat transfer from the molten salts is probably almost instantaneous. 

There is an excellent video on the website.
  
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Re: Annealing
Reply #13 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 1:23am
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FredC, my sniper match partner from south Florida has told me he thinks I am annealing to an excessive temperature based on pics I've sent him.  He anneals with a fancy flame though.  I follow the recommendations of others with more experience than I using the salt bath equipment.  I was told that overtemped case necks can be mashed flat by hand.  I can tell no difference in the crush strength of my pre or post annealed case necks.  They also load great with consistent neck tension.
  
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Re: Annealing
Reply #14 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 3:03am
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Just emailed Gary at Ballistic Recreations and asked some of these same questions. I also asked if I could use his thermocouple with one of my heat treat oven controllers. The Lee pot does not seem to like 1000F and fails at that temp.
I have read that 650F is the temp needed but requires a long time so increasing the temp shortens the time needed. So 950 may be the right temp for 4 to 7 secs. That Tempil paste does not seem to work for me. I am real good at seeing mechanical details but seeing colors or a paint flowing are not easy or repeatable for me. I have a noncontact thermometer but the area where you need to measure is so small on a case neck it will blend background in temperatures for a bad read. Not sure if the "experts" recommending 700 were really getting 700.
The salt may affect colors also. While it is submerged it is cut off from oxygen, and salt is below the temp that is a strong oxidizer. Who knows if the colors would be the same as achieved with a torch. If you are getting good results that may be the best indication. When I am sizing from 30 to 35 caliber I need to know I am getting consistent results. If you are still able to edit your second post you may want to correct the name of the supplier.
Additional thought:
The reason for the higher temp maybe the salt is not as fast as molten metal in the transfer. The 950 maybe needed because it is slower. When I was trying molten lead I figured the transfer was immediate.
  
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