Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]  Send TopicPrint
 25 Long Range Chances (Read 4008 times)
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 504
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #60 - Jun 23rd, 2019 at 9:21am
Print Post  
Thanks for 'splaining that target!

Looks like you're ready to score well at 1000, Paul!

Great shooting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #61 - Jun 24th, 2019 at 1:21am
Print Post  
I de-capped the brass and inspected them pretty closely.  Again, no bulging or signs of excess pressure.  However,  I fired 15 rounds and there were three primers that had slightly flattened (a tiny hint of mushrooming).  The cases were all LC 72 except one HXP 77.

Now, I see this often in my 7.5 mm Swiss reloads, and those I reload with Berdan primers, and I attribute it to slightly loose primers.  Again, I never see any other signs of excess pressure.

Do you think these three primers are an indication of a pending problem?  Or is this just because of the "Hot" loads, and possibly slightly loose primers?  FWIW, I always use primer sealant.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Clcustom1911
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 21st, 2019
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #62 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 6:39am
Print Post  
Great thread. Lots of information here. Some primer flattening here and there is no problem. If it was combined with sticky extraction or sticky bolt lift... that's a problem. Additionally, you may have a bit or catering as an additional sign.

If the brass was on its first or second firing, it it still stretching ever-so-much to fill the chamber in all directions. That extra little bit of space allows the primer to back out just a hair as pressure builds and it expands a bit since the side walls of the primer are not supported by the primer pocket..., then the casing moves back under the rising pressure curve and pushes back onto the primer.

I personally think brass becomes the most consistent in a rifle after it has been fired in that rifle 3-4 times and only being neck sized each time.

As an aside..... When I shot .308, I shot just the 175g Matchking out to 1200 yards. I was pushing mine right about 2700 fps out of a 26" barrel and just barely off the lands (no more than .010").   It hammered 2MOA steel at 1000 all day long.  Different cartridge aside, the velocity was was kept me consistent at that distance.

I know its more money, but for long range shooting, a chronograph is a nearly indispensable tool. It allows you to collect the necessary data (standard deviation and extreme spread) to really make to most of Long distance.

I use a Magnetospeed Sporter which is the cheaper version at $179.  Yes, it changes your POI while it's on because it's changing the barrel harmonics. But the POI shift is consistent, I.e. my POI shifts up 5 moa on my Tikka T3x with its "lite" contour barrel. The group size is the same with the MagSpeed on or off the barrel.

So, whenever I shoot a load development series, I don't "zero" the rifle with the thing on.  It gets zero'd once I pick the load after the mad scientist portion is done.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Culpeper
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline



Posts: 619
Location: Right Coast of Africa
Joined: Mar 30th, 2005
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #63 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 5:14pm
Print Post  
Clcustom1911 wrote on Jun 27th, 2019 at 6:39am:
... So, whenever I shoot a load development series, I don't "zero" the rifle with the thing on.  It gets zero'd once I pick the load after the mad scientist portion is done.


That is good thinking.  I would have made that mistake.
  

Deacon in the Church of the Mighty Krag. Member of People Eating Tasty Animals (PETA).  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #64 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 1:03am
Print Post  
The Lake City was from a lot I purchased in bulk a couple years ago on Vender's Row... and as far as I know was all once fired.  I'm assuming it was all machine gun as several have slightly off center flash holes (I've been told that it's an indication of MG brass).  Perhaps this is why military primers are crimped.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Capt. Frank
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 65
Location: Dover, Delaware
Joined: Jun 13th, 2018
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #65 - Jun 28th, 2019 at 7:33pm
Print Post  
Yep.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #66 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 1:13am
Print Post  
Howdy all!

Well, the Long Range Match was a success.  My son and I shot both the Viale and Critchfield LR Matches.  I took 200 rounds with us, and between the two of us over the course of the two matches, we shot about 140 rounds total.  All were the 178 gr ELD-Match bullet with 60.0 grains of H4831SC and a CCI #34 Mil Spec primer.  we had some slightly flattened primers, but nothing alarming.  The gun performed well.  The target was nearly impossible to see through the iron sights, but we managed by locating the adjacent target numbers and then sighted between them, which put us on our target.  It took me 12 shots to get on paper, but when I did, we knew where our hold was after that.  Those 178s did a nice job of cutting through the wind, although we did have to correct a little.  There were a few misses... and my son hit the berm twice and cross fired once, LOL.  Above all... we had a lot of FUN!!! 

The picture shows me preparing for a shot!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Kerz
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 256
Location: KY
Joined: Jan 13th, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #67 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 10:24am
Print Post  
Paul,
Success aka "fun" is what it's all about!  Yelp, 1000 yds can be a little tough on the eyes.
Vic
  

Preparedness + Opportunity= Luck
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 504
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #68 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 11:21am
Print Post  
Paul, sounds great and I wish I was ready and able to shoot with you.

Playing ignorant, which I am,...what firearms were the two of you shooting at this long range? What size target were you shooting at? It must have been impossible to see with open sights at 1000 yards!

How many sighters did they allow?

Sorry, I'm just not familiar with anything at Perry.

Thanks and great job to both of you!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #69 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 1:37pm
Print Post  
Whig,  The target WAS nearly impossible to see!  The X ring is 12 inches across, and the 8 ring (the largest of black) was about 48 inches.  The 7 ring was the largest ring, and if you were outside of that ON paper, you scored a 6.  The target itself was (estimating) about 6 foot square!  Once we found our hold (through the help of a Marine with a very large pair of binoculars), the front sight blade completely covered the target, so our hold with zero wind was between the adjacent targets with a top frame hold (the top of the blade even with the top of the target frame).  Believe me when I say that it was VERY HARD to achieve that because just the mirage of heat coming off the field blurred the targets!  LR shooting is a whole different game!!!

We shot my 1903A3, and our ammo was detailed earlier.  We were competing against Long Range rifles, Match rifles and Palma rifles.  They allowed unlimited sighters, but you had to fire 20 shots for record and you only had 30 minutes to do it all... so you didn't want to fire too many sighters.  In the second match, once we confirmed that out hold hadn't changed, we shot for record after 5 or so sighters. 

Another thing to note:  There is NO coaching... so your scorer can't call out your shots once you've indicated that you're shooting for record.  You MUST have a spotting scope just so you can see where your shots are hitting.  Ron and I only had one scope... so I wound up buying a second, and way more expensive scope for that purpose!  If you are by yourself, one scope is enough because your scorer will use his for scoring.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 504
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #70 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 3:57pm
Print Post  
Does anyone use a small telescope or is the highest mag for a spotter still 60X?

Sounds like a ton of fun. I never liked having too many rules, though. That's why I don't travel to those kind of competitions. We have a lot of good fun shooting at our local range with quite relaxed shooting rules.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Parashooter
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Kragmudgeon

Posts: 452
Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 4th, 2010
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #71 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 8:06pm
Print Post  
Whig - if you download the rule books from CMP and NRA, many of your questions can be answered, like target dimensions -

800, 900, and 1000 Yard Target
NRA No. LR -
Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)
X ring ....... 10.00
10 ring....... 20.00
9 ring........ 30.00
8 ring........ 44.00
7 ring.......... 60.00
6 area . . . 72x72 square

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whig
KCA Official Member
***
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 504
Location: Balt MD
Joined: Sep 24th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #72 - Aug 6th, 2019 at 10:03pm
Print Post  
Thanks for the info about the rule book. I'll look at that.

Still would like to know others' opinions and experience with the scopes?

I searched for a different eyepiece for my Bushnell Elite 60X spotting scope and called the company but no where have I found any stronger eyepiece to use that would increase the power of the scope. I have a small telescope but need to get an inverting objective to flip the image.

Just wondering what others do at extreme ranges like 1000 yards plus. I have a March Optics 8 x 80 scope on my long range Robar SR90 .308 rifle. That's more mag than my spotting scope.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
psteinmayer
KCA Forum Member
*
Offline


Krag Enthusiast!

Posts: 2181
Location: Ypsilanti, Michgan
Joined: Aug 30th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Long Range Chances
Reply #73 - Aug 7th, 2019 at 12:11pm
Print Post  
Parashooter wrote on Aug 6th, 2019 at 8:06pm:
Whig - if you download the rule books from CMP and NRA, many of your questions can be answered, like target dimensions -

800, 900, and 1000 Yard Target
NRA No. LR -
Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)
X ring ....... 10.00
10 ring....... 20.00
9 ring........ 30.00
8 ring........ 44.00
7 ring.......... 60.00
6 area . . . 72x72 square

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)


Thanks for that.  I was guestimating on memory... but I was close (forgot that the dimensions were in the rule book).  Still, 6 foot square is awful small at over half a mile, LOL!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 
Send TopicPrint
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board  ^Top