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 25 Jungle Carbine Bayonet (Read 7866 times)
Littlejohn
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 1:06am
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butlersrangers wrote on Oct 8th, 2019 at 11:49am:
Nice looking carbine, Littlejohn!

I started collecting as a teenager in the 1960's and focused on British military stuff. It was a lot cheaper than U.S. Arms and some good gun books (in English) were available and inexpensive.
Neat things showed up at Michigan shows, coming into the U.S. from Canada.
A little bit of knowledge and not too much competition from other collectors, made it great fun!

I lost interest in the Lee-Enfield rifles, as shooters, because a lot of them were tough on Brass. I have sold off some of the rarer things, I lucked into, as my interest in other arms grew.

I came to the sad realization there were too many variations of Lee-Enfield rifles and too many 'Holy Grails' that were out of reach.

I have kept these example rifles, that were acquired before 1968, and some bayonets picked up along the way.

My youngest son would like to have these someday.


Nice trio of British rifles. I'd like to have a No.1 MKIII. Haven't found the right one yet.
My other Enfield is a No.4 MK1* made in 1942 at Small Arms Ltd. Long Branch, Ont. CA

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Currently set up with a Weaver v4.5 scope due to "old eyes syndrome".

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To kind of stay on topic, here are a couple of rifles with bayonets fixed. 1945 Izhevsk Mosin M44, and Chinese factory 636 SKS.

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Local Boy
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 7:14am
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Cool looking bayonet Whig!  Not sure if it is...but the Aussies would paint their bayonets green for camouflage purposes.  The scabbard almost looks like a Carcano bayonet scabbard that had the rounded top ground flat?  Looking forward to seeing pics of your Jungle Carbine.

Butlersrangers, your Jungle Carbine bayonet is superb and a beauty to behold!

Wonderful Enfield sniper Littlejohn!

A few years back  I should have, would have, could have purchased very nice No5 bayonets for $190-$230.  Now, similar bayonets are bringing $350-$450! Cry

Here's my first GOTO sight when ever I have bayonet questions:

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...and some more Enfields and bayonets (Pattern 14 thrown in for good measure):

Top Jungle Carbine is a 1947 BSA.

Bottom is a 1945 Fazakerley.  It's my second rifle refurbishment that I had ever done.  Almost everything is original except for the reproduction front stock and flash hider.

The No5 bayonet is a reproduction
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2019 at 6:38am by Local Boy »  
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Whig
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2019 at 11:27am
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I'm surprised at the number of reproduction Jungle Carbine bayonets but I didn't realize the going price for originals when you can find one. Nice to have with my dad's Enfield No. 5 collection. Thanks for helping find this info!
  
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Whig
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #18 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 11:11pm
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Finally got a chance to get a few pictures of my dad's Jungle Carbine Enfield No.5 SN:T101 and the accoutrements that came with it. I haven't dug through the paperwork files to find the original receipt but he paid a whopping $17.50 for the lot in the late 60s or early 70s at a hardware store in Maryland somewhere.

The stock is almost unblemished.

The rifle looks unused. The bore is pristine and I have only shot non-corrosive ammo through it and not much. The 30 cal ammo box below came with the purchase (he paid extra for these on a different receipt) and the sling and small ammo/mag pouch and case all have markings. The carbine has all matching parts including the barrel and bolt. The magazine has green paint on it like the bayonet, interestingly. The mag does not match the serial number of the carbine.

I also wonder if it is unusual for this serial number to be only three numbers after the first letter. Everywhere I look says all jungle carbines have a 4 digit number after the letter.

There are no import marks anywhere. I doubt this is a bring-back carbine because it looks unused. But, I don't know how things worked with these.

Thanks for all your help in identifying this stuff. I have other Enfields I'll get pictures of soon to share. Lots of fellow milsurp collectors out there!
  
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Whig
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #19 - Oct 10th, 2019 at 11:12pm
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More carbine pics:

  
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Littlejohn
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #20 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 1:06am
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That is a really nice No.5. Looks correct. Not a put-together made from No.4 parts. It's about 6 months older than mine (5/46). Made at the same Royal Ordnance Factory, Fazakerley. ROF (F). Not sure on the SN. Maybe someone forgot to add the leading zero. They would make 9999 rifles with a letter prefix starting at A then start numbering them from 1 with the next letter. The SN of my rifle is prefixed with a V.

The sling is not correct for a British rifle, but if that's what your dad put on it, I can see why you'd want to leave it that way.

The ENGLAND stamp was a pre '68 U.S. import requirement to show country of origin.
Your rifle was possibly imported by Interarmco.

The BNP stamp is Birmingham Nitro Proof. .303 is the caliber. 2.222 is the case length. 18.5 tons is the pressure of the proof round.

The proof was required for rifles sold into the civilian market by the British government.

Very nice rifle.
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2019 at 3:45am by Littlejohn »  
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Whig
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #21 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 1:23am
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Thanks Littlejohn. I didn't know that the England stamp was considered an import mark. The sling was on it when he purchased it, from what I remember him telling me. I'm not even sure he even ever fired this nice carbine. If he did, he probably would have used the old corrosive ammo he bought with it and not cleaned the bore. It is so clean, that didn't happen.

Great to have some family treasures. I've got some from my oldest brother who died years ago and used to shoot in old Secret Service matches with his 1956 6 inch Colt Python. That's a nice treasure, also!
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #22 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 5:44am
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Nice early Jungle Carbine! That probably explains the 3 digit number. (It might even be a 'Trial #').

Mine was built by Fazakerly in 1947, so, it has the later metal forearm 'cap' and a four digit serial number.

The British did not issue extra magazines with Lee-Enfield rifles. They reloaded with 5-round 'Chargers' carried in cloth bandoliers.

My magazine has a matching serial number on the bottom of the magazine.
I don't think the war time No. 5 rifles had the magazines serial numbered.

I believe your canvass gear is all U.S. items. The sling is like the one the CMP sent with my M1 Garand.

Like 'Littlejohn' said, the "England" was to comply with U.S. Customs law. The "BNP Proofs" were to comply with British law for civilian sales.

p.s. The pressure test is 18.5 "Long Tons" per square inch.
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #23 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 7:01am
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Swell looking 'Jungle Carbine' Whig!!!

Your father's $17.50 investment will bring you many happy returns.

Interesting, first time I've seen a three digit number.

My Fazakerley is serial number O5327 dated 7/45.

Like Littlejohn had mentioned...the numbering system for Fazakerley made no5s began with A1 to A9999, B1 to B9999 and so forth.  Letters omitted were I and J.

One of my references does mention a B.S.A. (M47C) .22 trials rifle that had a T1 prefix (Only 100 were made).
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #24 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 7:52am
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'Local Boy' - Does your carbine have a metal cap on the forearm tip or is it plain, like Whig's?

FWIW - My first Jungle Carbine had plain wood and no metal cap.
  
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Whig
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 8:29am
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The extra mag I have is not serialized.

That's interesting they had a .22 variety made.

Thanks for the info. I have never studied up on these more than just some basic info when I first got it. Now I know a bunch more! Nice part of any mil-surp collection to have an authentic Enfield No. 5.
  
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Kerz
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #26 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 9:36am
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Whig, that is an excellent No 5! 
My Aussie friend said he carried a Jungle carbine during the Malaysian Conflict until they were issued L1A1s.  Interestingly enough, he said one day they were carrying the No 5 and the next the L1A1, without any training.
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Local Boy
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #27 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 9:38am
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Hi Chuck...the Fazakerley has a plain wooden forearm tip like Whig's

BTW: Whig I believe your extra magazine is for an SMLE no1 mark III.  You can tell by the groves which extend down to the base of the mag.  No4/5 mags have groves that stop just before the base...their also interchangeable with one another.

FWIW: I've read that the magazines were not marked with the serial number until around mid-1946.  They will often have the number engraved or stamped.
  
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Whig
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #28 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 10:37am
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If this extra is not correct for the carbine, I may have just pulled the wrong one from my storage. I'll have to check on that! Boy, they sure look the same. Thanks for the heads up!

I've got too much stuff packed away and don't have enough room to organize it all the right way.
  
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olderthansome
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Re: Jungle Carbine Bayonet
Reply #29 - Oct 11th, 2019 at 2:01pm
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Whig,  Check the mag that's lying on the rifle cover in a previous photo.
  
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