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 25 mounting the sight (Read 19924 times)
toucanman
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #45 - Mar 7th, 2017 at 8:18pm
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here they both are
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #46 - Mar 7th, 2017 at 11:18pm
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The Krag bolt will have a little 'Free Play' and make a little noise, when it is un-cocked or when just the 'bare bolt' is put in the receiver.

The bolt gets quiet when 'cocked' (due to spring pressue). It is quiet when there is a cartridge case in the chamber (less free play).

You are over thinking this. U.S. Krags are not problematic in the 'head-space' department.

Forgive my candor - Generally, most "gunsmiths" these days, are installers of scopes and Laser Bore-Sighters. You stand a good chance of being totally misinformed and leaving the gun store totally shaken and confused.

Go to the Range. Fire some standard 180 grain Winchester or Remington factory loads. Inspect each cartridge case after firing for any sign of excessive stretching in the case 'Head' area. Have Fun and save your Brass!

Next thing you know, you'll take up Reloading!

(p.s. - On the model 1898 Krag, the magazine cut-off lever is in the "up" position to feed cartridges from the magazine with the bolt.

The Krag was intended to be a 'Single Shot' arm, with the Magazine Contents held in reserve.

When the cut-off is "up", a shiny surface shows. This catches your Sergeant's attention and prompts him to come yell at you).

I always leave my Cut-Off "up". I like to get yelled at!
  
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Hoot
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #47 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 5:55pm
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WARNING: Personal opinion and experiences ahead. Use at your own risk. Feel free to disregard or otherwise denigrate.  Wink

OK, that out of the way, I have come to the opinion that headspace isn't really the boogeyman that it is sometimes claimed to be. Particularly if one has only a single arm in any given chambering. Also, particularly if one does not reload and, even if one does, there's many ways to deal with the issue.

Here's a series of videos from the American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) and their experiments with an 8mm Mauser.
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More than a couple of minutes of watching here.

My own experience involved the purchase of a sporterized '98 Mauser labeled as "8mm". I promptly took it to the range with a box of 8mm's loaded up for another rifle. Upon firing, I noticed nothing odd; the bullet struck the target reasonably close to where I was aiming, no smoke, nothing. Extracting the cartridge revealed an odd looking case with an extremely short neck.

Here it is compared to a standard 8x57.

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I have come to find out the chamber was reamed to 8mm-06! This results in a headspace issue of nearly a quarter inch. The brass didn't blow out (unknown number of reloads BTW), gases didn't escape, I didn't die.

Continued...
  
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Hoot
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #48 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 5:57pm
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Sorry, ran out of characters.

Now, neither the rifles in the videos nor mine were Krags however, they were also operating at significantly higher pressures than usual Krag loading. I'm not saying just ignore headspace or that bad things can't happen. I am saying there is evidence it isn't as dire of a problem as it's sometimes made out to be.

Please take all of the above as opinion. Above all, put some thought into it, make your own decisions and be safe.

Cheers,
Hoot
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #49 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:17pm
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That's a Liberal Chamber for you!
  
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madsenshooter
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #50 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:58pm
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Good one BR!  Hoot got away with the excessive headspace because US 8mm ammo is underloaded.  Note the primer sticking out, not enough pressure to force the head back to the bolt face.  I think US 8mm is loaded to an even lower pressure than 30-40.  That had something to do with early 8mm rifles having a tighter bore.
  
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Hoot
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #51 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 5:54pm
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These were handloaded by myself to push 170gr to 2500-2600 or so. Not screamers for sure but not terribly underpowered. Pressure *should* be in the vicinity of 43,000CUP (extrapolated from Hodgdon's site).

My assumption on the proud primers is that the case walls held the body in place but that there wasn't enough pressure to thin the area above the web whilst pushing the head back. I can detect no case thinning via the 'paper clip' method. The extractor held the rim while the shoulder migrated forward....you gotta love Mauser extractors. And, no, I'm not loading this case again.

There are other issues with this rifle so this is the only shot fired, for what it's worth.
  
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toucanman
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #52 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 6:41pm
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im still wrapping my head around this head space thing Smiley thanks for all the help and insight .

now  you guys tell me the front sight blade i have is a low blade 1892 thru 1896 type  ? i have a 1901 sight on a 1898 model now , so do i need to change the blade or is this combination gona work OK . any of you guys know enough to help my situation as its also on a shortened barrel 22 inch length ... is this something only determined at the range ?

from what i see the 1898 model used the tall sight blade ? this having the shorter barrel has to make some difference ? like what does a real carbide 22 inch  barrel use ?

its a rather mix-mash of parts n years so it confusing to the the newby here . im just wanting it as good as i can get it before hitting the range .....im still waiting on a little pin in the mail .
« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:44pm by toucanman »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #53 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 8:42pm
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'toucanman': IMHO - If you measure from the top of your 22 inch barrel to the top of the front-sight blade (with the blade installed in the sight base), it should be around .660" to .670".

This should have you on the paper at 50 and 100 yards.

If your Krag is then shooting too low, elevate your slide or carefully file metal off the top of the blade.

Different shooters have different sight-picture preferences: (aim with bull on top of front blade - like a 'pumpkin on a post', aim at 'center of pie plate', and aim "in other novel ways"). Just be consistent.

I don't know what sight blade you have now. (It looks filed down to me).

You can always shoot with your current sights, by putting one Bulls-eye above another and aiming at the lower one.

To remove your blade, drive the small pin out, Left-to-Right. The front-sight pin is tapered.

You can always make an experimental blade by filing and shaping one out of a copper penny.
  
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toucanman
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #54 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:08pm
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OK im looking at more like .5625 . put a square on the barrel end and the sight tip and measured between barrel n square ..... so this something i may need to address thats pretty easily remedied once i start shooting and become ONE with it Smiley this may cost me a bundle in shells LOL as im no marksman anyways  LOL

oh its also .375 the front base of the sight to the end of the barrel . 

to have this sight blade and it looks to have been there this way a long makes me wonder if someone has already gone thru the trouble of sighting in and or shortening / filing it ?  may save me some grief ? only one way to really find out i guess .

again thanks for the guidance !!! steve
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #55 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:37pm
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Use a big piece of cardboard for a 'backer' at 50 yards, staple one Bulls-Eye above another, aim using a 6 o'clock hold on the lower Bull, squeeze off one shot (from the Bench).

If your 1st shot hits the backer, squeeze off four more shots, using the same sight setting and the same sight picture. Don't tweak anything!

If you have done your part, you should have a 1 & 1/2 inch group. You will know where your Krag shoots relative to its sights. You will know it is accurate with the load you are shooting. You will have some confidence.

You may now consider intelligent sight adjustment. (Or, if you are well centered on the target, move to 100 yards).

Remember:

Move rear-sight in direction you wish to move your shots.

A higher front sight blade will lower your shots.

A lower front sight blade will raise your shots.

Do not shoot-adjust, shoot-adjust, shoot-adjust! If you do, you will burn a lot of ammo and learn nothing.

Save your targets to log your results. Save your Brass!
  
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psteinmayer
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #56 - Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:04pm
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Very good advice to everyone trying to sight in (sometimes I forget this and try to adjust based on a single shot, LOL). 

Fear not...  If you are close, then only minor tweaking is in order. 

To be honest, I rarely change by sight calibration.  I'm sighted in for Match shooting at 200 yards, and if I'm a hair right/left, or high/low, I usually use "Kentucky Windage" rather than adjust my sight.  Seems to work for me anyway.
  
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toucanman
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #57 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 4:56pm
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got the rest of my parts yesterday from movieman Smiley thought id show ya one of the parts i replaced , when i disassembled the gun i thought this looked an awful lot like a cut off nail with the ringed shank , so i looked over the diagrams and ebay photos and sure enough it was not an OEM ejector pin . i also picked up a 3 piece cleaning rod set n oiler tin ...... i like how it all fits behind the trap door , was the other hole drilled in the butt stock ever used for something other that a little weight saving ?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #58 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:59pm
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Here is a picture of the Krag Oiler and three rod sections stored. The Oiler goes in first, then the rod sections. A folded cleaning patch in the Butt Trap is a good idea to immobilize the accessories.

Soldiers had to pair up & share a section to make a rod long enough to clean the bore properly.

Some Krag stocks may not have had the wood removed to accept the Oil Container.

The bottom Stock hole is just to lighten the weapon.

These 'Butt Trap' accessories were 'make-do' in the Field tools. The solid brass barrack rods were a better cleaning implement.
  
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toucanman
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Re: mounting the sight
Reply #59 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 8:48pm
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because my barrel has been cut down to 22 inches the 3 rod 24 inch length works just perfect here . ya ,  i added a few cleaning patches like ya said .

so i think im ready to give it a go , i have a concern of California gun laws now . my other guns i bought new , did the waiting period and there registered to me . for this Krag i have no paperwork or anything . so is it ok to use without fear of it being confiscated ? or something ? is a shooting range gona question this ?

mine was manufactured in the year 1900 .
  
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