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Barrel Band for Krag Sporter (Read 27449 times)

RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #15 - Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 2:56pm	Print Post
	Thank you for all the good info. Seeing that Savage band has really got me thinking about similar alternatives if the Savagae part can't be found. Great idea to stabilize the from of my barrel landless stock. I'll start checking around Thanks again for your help!! RomeoJim


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #16 - Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 6:48pm	Print Post
	Just called Numrich They have the band but not the barrel band nut or the accompanying screw. Guess I'll try Savage and may eBay again RomeoJim


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #17 - Feb 22^nd, 2018 at 8:32pm	Print Post
	Jim, I just bought the screw and band yesterday. If you can be patient, I will try to make the 34? part. After I ordered the pair (screw and band) I did another mock order of 20 of the bands, I put them in the cart and got no message they were out. So they may have plenty of the bands. Anyway if you can be the beta tester I will make the 34 part/nut and we will see if this is a good fit for the Krag. Main concern its the barrel will be a different diameter than the Savage. In the mean time if you can get a Savage dealer to provide the whole set of parts go for that and let me know to stop.


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #18 - Feb 28^th, 2018 at 8:50pm	Print Post
	Hi FredC, I responded to your text a few days ago and pushed ' post message' but it obviously never posted my reply on this thread. I am certain that Savage will be of no help in obtaining a part and I truly appreciate your offer of help. Figure up a fee for me and I'll be happy to pay for something that will solve the problem. Thanks Again, Jim


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #19 - Mar 1^st, 2018 at 4:53pm	Print Post
	Jim, Several others have looked for a band or such to prevent ruining of stocks. So lets use you as a guinea pig on this with the idea it can help others. Found the parts in the mail after hours yesterday. The screw has 1/4 28 threads. The 2 photos of the band show that loose it spreads out considerably. In the tool makers vice the inside measurement is .708 when the legs are more or less parallel. Assuming that the band will live with plus or minus .032 in barrel diameter it will go any where from 10 inches to 17 inches from the end of the receiver, with 12.5 being the sweet spot at .708 inches. The firs thing I want to do is make a mock up and see if this is going to fit in the stock at the lengths mentioned. I have a photo of my dad's original 98 Krag with marks at 10, 12.5 and 17 inches. I have some 1/4 X 1/2 aluminum rectangle stock, if I can find it I will turn the 2 catches and measure how much it stands off the barrel. If there is room we will proceed to proceed. Could use some help here, what say the rest, are we barking up a good tree? Jim, Added thought. I went back and looked at you posted photo of your stock, can you do what I did? Put a couple of pieces of masking tape on the stock they do not have to be really stuck down and mark 10 and 12 inches with a marker on the tape. Lets see how thick your stock is in that neighborhood.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #20 - Mar 1^st, 2018 at 6:11pm	Print Post
	I wait with great interest the outcome of your experiment. It would be great if such a barrel-band could use the lightening-cut and hand-guard spring inlet on a sportered original stock. Also, if a quick detachable swivel stud could screw directly into the barrel-band nut.


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #21 - Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 12:12am	Print Post
	Well here it is less the 1/4-28 tapped hole. To get this in the stock it will need a pocket 15/16 wide, 9/16 length wise (parallel to the barrel) and 1/2 deep from the bottom of the barrel channel. I think a 1/8 thick washer inletted into the stock would do. Between this washer and the bottom of the 1/2 deep hole I think 3/16 of wood would suffice. So from the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the stock 13/16 minimum. the photo is showing the band at 12.5 inches from the receiver, at 10 inches there is some obvious distortion in the band but I am sure tension would pull it flush with the barrel all round. With B/R's suggestion that the screw also hold the sling swivel a little more thought would have to go into this. Stock work would need to involve drilling a 1/4 inch hole through the center of the barrel channel. I would use some sort of piloted drill to make a 1/2 pocket from the top and maybe a 7/8 pocket from the bottom. The pocket in the barrel channel would get the rectangle shape 1/2 deep with a Dremel tool. Make a countersunk 7/8 washer for the bottom and screw it in.


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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #22 - Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 12:44am	Print Post
	Why make the block so wide? The Savage drawing shows the band recurved at the lower extremities and a block appearing equilateral. Is the band not readily amenable to a bit of bending to allow a smaller block?


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #23 - Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 3:05pm	Print Post
	You are right I thought the width would have been 1/2 inch also from the illustration. The band material is .025 thick and about as springy as feeler gauge stock. I was afraid to bend it more thinking I would get a permanent deformation. The 2 ends are bent out on purpose and the getting the width down to 1/2 may work correctly with those bends. I still have all the tools in the lathe so I can do a couple more. I will try one at .6 and .5 inches. If the .6 works without feeling like I am permanently deforming the band then I will try the .5 inch. Also need to rethink what bottom of the stock will need, a 7/8 inch washer there would look terrible even if it was coned to sort of match the contour of the stock. Brownels has a couple of "barrel bands " in their catalog. Maybe they have an online photo. I can tell nothing from their print illustration. The attached photo shows the top of the band, nothing moved since the first photo. Matches the barrel radius pretty well at 12.5 inches.


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butlersrangers KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 6330 Location: Michigan Bi-Peninsular&Proud Joined: Oct 7^th, 2009	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #24 - Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 4:17pm	Print Post
	FWIW - My two cents - I would make the nut in a trapazoid shape. The longer parallel side would be at the top. I would groove that side to fit close to the barrel. The angled sides would be as long as necessary or desired. A cross hole through the angled sides would accomodate a cross-pin, notched at the ends, to link with the band. The short parallel side, at the bottom of this rig, would be drilled and tapped for desired screw or de-tachable swivel stud. I do not see merit in keeping the barrel-band 'sides' parallel. If they are drawn inward, less wood will need to be removed.


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Parashooter KCA Forum Member Offline Kragmudgeon Posts: 514 Location: Connecticut Joined: Feb 4^th, 2010	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #25 - Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 4:32pm	Print Post
	butlersrangers wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2018 at 4:17pm: FWIW - My two cents - I would make the nut in a trapazoid shape. . . I think that idea is worth at least fifty cents. Solves a whole bunch of fabrication and fitting problems!


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #26 - Mar 3^rd, 2018 at 1:58am	Print Post
	Even though the trapezoid has some desirable is not doable without some expensive tooling or shop built fixtures. I did a .6 and .5 inch copies. The .6 is just a bit wider than the barrel at 12.5 inches, the .5 is definitely narrower than the barrel. I did get both on the barrel the .6 started to get tight about 13.5 inches out and could be pushed to 12.5 easy enough. It did not scratch the bluing as the edges of the strap are rounded somewhat. The .5 had to be started on the barrel with some force. the barrel is cut off at 18 inches. Without prebending the strap it will be difficult to get it mounted behind the sight on Jim's barrel. I will try to get it so that it can be wrapped around the barrel and get the nut properly engaged behind the sight with either of the 2 smaller nuts. We will let Jim see how much room he has on the fore end and bend to fit that nut. We want to see how wide the fore end is at 12.5 inches from the front of the receiver and how deep from the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the stock at that point.


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RomeoJim KCA Forum Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 45 Location: Romeo, Michigan Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2016 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #27 - Mar 5^th, 2018 at 2:08pm	Print Post
	Awesome work FredC. We're at our cabin right now but I'm anxious to get home to measure the barrel and stock width and depth from 12.5" out from the receiver. Direct attachment of the sling swivel to the barrel band mount screw ideally would provide the most strength, but appears to cause difficulty with design to accommodate that. If the swivel stud can be installed relatively close to the the barrel band, wouldn't the rigidity obtained by the stock's attachment to the barrel band provide adequate strength to prevent stock fracture? THANKS to you for your interest, expertise, and work on this issue


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FredC KCA Official Member Offline Krag Enthusiast! Posts: 759 Location: Dewees, Texas Joined: May 31^st, 2013 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #28 - Mar 5^th, 2018 at 3:09pm	Print Post
	Quote "Direct attachment of the sling swivel to the barrel band mount screw ideally would provide the most strength, but appears to cause difficulty with design to accommodate that." Not necessarily, it could be the easiest attachment, if the swivel is heal be a single screw. I have not tapped these nuts yet. if you find a swivel that uses a 1/4 inch or 10-32 screw in the center and is meant to be full tightness I can tap the nut with the appropriate thread. Quote "If the swivel stud can be installed relatively close to the barrel band, wouldn't the rigidity obtained by the stock's attachment to the barrel band provide adequate strength to prevent stock fracture?" This could work as well. What to do with the hole in the bottom of the stock? A pain 7/8 countersunk washer would not look right. I like Dick's term escutcheon, so lets call it that instead of washer. If you like the color of the aluminum bonze in the photo, I could round the ends and drill the appropriate hole in the center to be a relative snug fit to keep it from wallow then letting your swivel get loose. I have a small pile of these aluminum bronze ends from a production job we did 20 years ago. It does not seem to tarnish or discolor with age. How would you or a gunsmith make the inset in the stock for a escutcheon? I would do it on a milling machine, but it has been done other ways for centuries now. The band took a set from forcing it on to the barrel I was able to pull the nut out of the band easily and have no doubt it will install as easily. It does have enough tension when installed that it will hold the nut fairly tight when lowered into the stock and be located so you can start the screw.


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Dick Hosmer KCA Official Member Offline Collector of Springfield Arms, 1865-1915 Posts: 1862 Location: Northern California Joined: Nov 20^th, 2005 Gender:	Re: Barrel Band for Krag Sporter Reply #29 - Mar 5^th, 2018 at 3:31pm	Print Post
	With sincere apologies to the fine craftsman and machinists involved, I think this thing is going off the rails with complexity. When done, everything will be concealed except the top of the band, the slots cut in the wood and the bottom screw with its' escutcheon. What goes on "in the hole" could (should) be as simplistic (even fugly) as possible, especially for those who just want a barrel holder. Adding the swivel to the mix might introduce additonal issues, depending on what style is used. Just my .02 - wish I could work on this at the bench, but my "shop" (such as it is, i'm only a tinkerer) is not available at present, nor will it be for several months.


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