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 25 Headspace on 1898 (Read 8862 times)
CHUCKW
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #30 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 7:02pm
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Additional data incoming.  Try to answer previous questions.

I checked gauge diameters and found- go =.552, NO-GO =.551 and FIELD =.544.
Gauges are flat, without bevel (unlike ammo).
None of the gauges get stuck in chamber
No excessive wear indicated on bolt.
I believe the sides of the rims of gauges are hitting the interior bolt flange on the go and no-go gauges as they will "rock" when placed against the bolt face (also may be too large as indicated by the measurements).
I did not have aluminum cans to use as shims so I used blue painter's tape which measures at .004.  I applied it to the interior of the bolt face and found that the NOS bolt would not close on the field gauge nor the go or no-go.  The old bolt would not close on the field or no-go gauges but would close on the go gauge.  What is this telling me?  The field gauge measured at .685 and add the thickness of the tape of .004, neither bolt would close on a thickness of .689.  Can I extrapolate that this would be ok?  If I had a field gauge that measured .690-.700 and the bolt would not close, would that be ok?
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #31 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 8:36pm
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FWIW - I feel like we are not speaking the same language.

Parashooter suggested you try the 'shims' on a cartridge-case, to check for the amount of free-travel. (Not on the head-space gauge)!

IMHO - This thread has gotten chaotic.

It would behoove you to seek out someone knowledgeable about the Krag and rimmed cartridges and have them review the situation personally, in your presence.

My hunch is that "Fit", is being interfered with at the bolt-face, and making your gauge use and readings invalid.
  
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Mark_Daiute
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #32 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 8:37pm
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I am going to ask several dumb questions and if they have been asked already, I apologize.

What led to you checking the headspace? Did you fire the rifle and discover issues? If you fired the rifle, what did fired cases look like? Does the old bolt close ok on a factory round? Does the new bolt close ok on a factory round.

Thanks in advance, I look forward to the answers.
  
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CHUCKW
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #33 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 9:30pm
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Mark_Daiute wrote on Sep 29th, 2019 at 8:37pm:
I am going to ask several dumb questions and if they have been asked already, I apologize.

What led to you checking the headspace? Did you fire the rifle and discover issues? If you fired the rifle, what did fired cases look like? Does the old bolt close ok on a factory round? Does the new bolt close ok on a factory round.

Thanks in advance, I look forward to the answers.


I have never fired the rifle and wanted to check headspace first.
  
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CHUCKW
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #34 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 9:32pm
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Can anyone recommend a Krag specialist in the Stafford, Va. area?
  
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Mark_Daiute
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #35 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 9:32pm
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do the bolts chamber a round without issue?

Thanks in advance.

Mark
  
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Local Boy
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #36 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 12:43am
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Here's my 2 cents once again.

I believe it might be a gauge issue...otherwise, carry-on and good luck with your reputable gunsmith search.

Below are photos of the NOS bolt with the Clymer GO gauge and .30-40 round.

IMHO: The GO gauge should be even (or close to it) with the bolt face rim.  This one seems a wee bit excessive...even after seating the gauge by tapping it with a rubber mallet.

« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2019 at 2:41am by Local Boy »  
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CHUCKW
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #37 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 1:14am
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butlersrangers wrote on Sep 29th, 2019 at 8:36pm:
FWIW - I feel like we are not speaking the same language.

Parashooter suggested you try the 'shims' on a cartridge-case, to check for the amount of free-travel. (Not on the head-space gauge)!

IMHO - This thread has gotten chaotic.

It would behoove you to seek out someone knowledgeable about the Krag and rimmed cartridges and have them review the situation personally, in your presence.

My hunch is that "Fit", is being interfered with at the bolt-face, and making your gauge use and readings invalid.


I checked the free travel as you describe and was able to close (with slight pressure) the bolt on .016 on a live round.
  
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CHUCKW
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #38 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 1:15am
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Mark_Daiute wrote on Sep 29th, 2019 at 9:32pm:
do the bolts chamber a round without issue?

Thanks in advance.

Mark


Yes, both bolts chamber rounds without issue.
  
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Mark_Daiute
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #39 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 1:27am
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Well here goes.

I may get flamed for this but I'll forge ahead anyway.

IF IT WAS MY RIFLE I'D GO SHOOT IT. This is definitely NOT advice, just letting you know what I'ld do.

If I was really concerned I'd put the rifle in a tire, get around he corner of the barn and fire it with a string and then examine the fired case.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #40 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 2:14am
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Thanks Mark D. and Local Boy for your clear/ information gathering questions.

Local Boy - I took pictures similar to yours. My 'No Name/Anonymous' Field Gauge sits square on a bolt face without binding or rocking. There is generous clearance between the 'rim-edge' of the gauge and the bolt-head flange.

A cartridge case 'fits' in an identical manner.

The cartridge case rim is about .064" thick. The 'Field' Head-Space gauge has a rim about .073" thick.

These two bolts close easily on a factory case, but not, on the Field Gauge. (Which is as it should be).

FWIW - (I assume ChuckW has been using his Gauges with a stripped bolt. Trying to do so with an assembled bolt adds mechanical functions that interfere with being able to feel contact and resistance. Also, the firing-pin tip would make contact with some styles & makes of head-space gauges, making valid testing impossible).
  
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Parashooter
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #41 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 4:25am
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CHUCKW wrote on Sep 29th, 2019 at 7:02pm:
. . . I did not have aluminum cans to use as shims so I used blue painter's tape which measures at .004. . .

Please STOP right there!

Paper and adhesive gum, the principal ingredients in "painter's tape", are very easily compressed. To make useful measurements you must employ non-compressible shim material. This means metal at least as resistant as aluminum. If you live near a public roadway in the USA, you should be able to find plenty of discarded beverage cans. If not, get a cheap feeler gauge set from your favorite discount tool emporium and make shims from that.

Just don't use something squishy like tape!

CHUCKW wrote on Sep 28th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
[Sep 28th, 2019] I measured the rims of the gauges and found the go to be .063, the no-go is .0685 and the field to be .0685-.069.

* * * * * *

[Sep 29th, 2019] The field gauge measured at .685 and add the thickness of the tape of .004, neither bolt would close on a thickness of .689.  Can I extrapolate that this would be ok?  If I had a field gauge that measured .690-.700 and the bolt would not close, would that be ok?


It's important to keep track of the decimal places. If you find this difficult, please get in-person assistance from someone with technical expertise.

  
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FredC
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #42 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 2:35pm
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The advantage of using aluminum drink cans is after you have cut the 2 ends off the can with a pocket knife you could probably cut the disks out with a pair of reasonably sharp household scissors.

One thing with measuring the shoulder diameter of the gauges with calipers, even digital ones, they can lie to you. I would be more inclined to go by the numbers printed on the gauge or storage container.
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2019 at 4:48pm by FredC »  
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butlersrangers
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #43 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 4:19pm
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Fred - You could manufacture a much better Gauge for the U.S. Krag than the main manufacturers offer .... Hint, Hint!
  
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FredC
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Re: Headspace on 1898
Reply #44 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 6:26pm
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butlersrangers wrote on Sep 30th, 2019 at 4:19pm:
Fred - You could manufacture a much better Gauge for the U.S. Krag than the main manufacturers offer .... Hint, Hint!

Barely can keep up with stuff as it is, if you can spare a gauge for a few days, you could always send it to me and I can verify the number is as advertised with that gauge I checked the cases with.  see reply#18
  
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