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 25 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713 (Read 6410 times)
butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #15 - May 3rd, 2020 at 10:17pm
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Try just closing a bare bolt (striker/extractor mechanism removed) in the action.

This will tell, if it is a bolt fit problem. (Very unlikely)

If the bare bolt closes. Try closing the bare bolt on a cartridge. This will check chamber dimension and minimum head-space. (Usually checked by barrel installer with a 'Go Gauge').

If the bare bolt closes on a cartridge, then the problem is likely with the extractor or 'extractor cut'. (Something interfering with the extractor being free to rise and snap over the cartridge rim).

Do your cartridge cases have a bevel on the rim?

(IIRC - Someone recently had a problem with Hornady .30-40 Brass, which was lacking the traditional bevel. The case bevel assists in the extractor 'claw' moving upward).

BTW - There is a slight inclined edge or shelf on the left interior of the Krag action.
The left edge of the extractor-spring rides under this surface to assist keeping downward tension on the extractor 'claw'. Check these surfaces for burrs or debris.
« Last Edit: May 4th, 2020 at 5:55am by butlersrangers »  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #16 - May 4th, 2020 at 12:57am
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Thanks for the replies.  To answer Ned's question first because others are probably wondering about this as well ... I did not check it for chambering when first received after the barrel installation. I had implied there were some issues in my initial post and in fact this rifle was sent back twice for issues related to the overall job but not involving the actual installation so I never did get to a point of chambering a case or dummy until this point. I also assumed that checking for function would have been part of the installation procedure and being preoccupied with the other issues I did not check it at that point...obviously now wished I had. 

The cases I have empty, dummies and loaded are Remington so are beveled per specs. Also it may not have been clear before but the bolt does close on an empty chamber, although initially I had to slightly force it and it took a few more cycles until it felt normal. Its was the bolt from the other 1898 that didn't close on this empty chamber and I didn't want to force it.

The bare bolt closes easily on a dummy round with no pressure at all felt against the case or bolt lug. I also tried the full assembled bolt on a new 30-30 case and it chambered and extracted with no issue if any meaning can be derived from that.

I guess at this point it would appear to be an extractor issue but what  puzzles me is the bolt face makes contact with the case when the bolt handle travel stops so doesn't appear there is room for anymore bolt forward movement to allow the extractor to jump the rim.

Due to events up until now I'd like to understand the problem as much as possible before sending it back so appreciate any additional insight.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #17 - May 4th, 2020 at 5:36am
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It sounds to me like the extractor notch is either not properly aligned (so as to be wide enough) or not properly angled to allow clearance of the 'claw', when it is holding a cartridge by the rim.

If both of your 'bare' Bolts will close on a cartridge, the Notch is the problem.
(Note - The sides of the barrel notch have to line up with the notch machined into the action and not make it narrower).

Clear photos of your barrel breech may allow us to spot something.

Attached photos to see one that works:
  
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Whig
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #18 - May 4th, 2020 at 11:03am
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As a few of us have stated, send it back on them. It needs fixed! Not up to you to diagnose specifically. It ain't working! You done paid good moolah for a job and you want to blast away with the Krag.

Good luck! I'm sure the gun smith will work with you and fix it and keep his reputation intact.

Keep us informed.
  
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Texas10
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #19 - May 4th, 2020 at 2:53pm
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Is it possible the person who did the blueing disassembled it and perhaps did not reassemble it correctly? I just can't imagine a competent gunsmith installing a new barrel and not checking fit and function.
  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #20 - May 4th, 2020 at 3:33pm
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The same entity that did the rebarrel handled the blueing  but I believe they sent it out to be blued.  Also believe it was blued intact as one unit since the receiver was not supposed to be blued.
  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #21 - May 4th, 2020 at 7:37pm
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Here are some views from different angles that may show something.
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #22 - May 4th, 2020 at 7:38pm
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'mavt' - In one of your posts you mentioned trying a .30-30 cartridge case. Was this a typo?

In looking at your photos, I believe, I see a bit of 'edge' of the barrel's extractor notch on the right.

The tip of your extractor may snag on this, causing difficulty in pushing the bolt fully forward.

Also, that side of the notch may be angled inward at the top. This would impair the extractor claw from lifting upward as the bolt is rotated closed.

Since this is a hunting/sporter, (if I am correct about the problem), an easy fix would be to remove a slight amount of metal from the right-side of the extractor-hook.

I would not do this to a totally original Krag. But, with a shooter/hunter piece, I would do a little file/stone work.
  
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FredC
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #23 - May 4th, 2020 at 7:40pm
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mavt wrote on May 4th, 2020 at 12:57am:
The bare bolt closes easily on a dummy round with no pressure at all felt against the case or bolt lug. I also tried the full assembled bolt on a new 30-30 case and it chambered and extracted with no issue if any meaning can be derived from that.    


When you close the bolt on a case with no extractor on the bolt besides closing easily can you generate a few thousands of front to back motion on the bolt with light pressure. You should be able to feel this but lubricant on the bolt may make the movement hard to discern.
If so a head space issue is completely off the table.
That leaves you with 3 possibilities. Least likely is a serious ding in the extractor that prevents it from entering the extractor slot. The 2 more likely problems are the extractor slot is not deep enough or slightly out of alignment when the barrel was tightened. The one you could do something about is if bluing salts leaked into the slot after bluing and hardened in the slot. Before you send it off, flush this out with spray penetrating oil and pick in there to loosen the granules up, flush again. Then blow it out with compressed air.  I had a bunch of salt come out of the threads on my dad's 1917 Enfield when it was blued.
  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #24 - May 4th, 2020 at 7:41pm
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And a couple more. I want to determine what the problem is if possible before sending it off anywhere.  Thanks for any insight.
  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #25 - May 4th, 2020 at 8:03pm
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30-30 is correct. Although a smaller head diameter and rim thickness for the heck of it I tried a 30-30 case. The bolt closed and the case extracted.

I also just tried the sporter bolt in the full military rifle and it closed and extracted a 30-40 case.  Rice sight didn't look quite right on it though!
  
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butlersrangers
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #26 - May 4th, 2020 at 8:11pm
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.30-30 trial is interesting but would not have required the same range of movement of the extractor 'claw', as a .30-40 case.

Please read my last post for possible problem and solution.
  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #27 - May 4th, 2020 at 9:27pm
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Yes, I think you are onto something there. When looking into the cut with good light there is clearly a bright spot worn through the blueing covering most of the right sidewall of the cut. Most likely that caused the initial hard bolt closing I felt that got better after a few cycles but is still too tight a fit when trying to chamber a case.

Thanks for the observation.
  
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Whig
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #28 - May 4th, 2020 at 9:55pm
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I'm somewhat amazed and concerned here. You paid good money (I assume) for a very specialized job of affixing a barrel to your receiver in order to actually use it. The job should have been done without problems, checked for proper functioning and sent to you to use. You should not have to spin your wheels and get numerous opinions, albeit good advice at times, to figure out what is going on.

Another point is, if you fool with it and can't fix it properly and then send it back, you may void any warranty to have it fixed by the gun smith.

Save time, worry and trouble and send it back! It needs to be 100% before using it or you may endanger yourself and others!

I would have already had it back to the guy to be fixed by now.

Please be careful and send it back!
  
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mavt
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Re: 1898 Sporter Serial# 456713
Reply #29 - May 4th, 2020 at 10:22pm
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Whig,
Appreciate your concern and for most situations it's probably the best advice but I have to report it is now working after very slight stoning of the right side of the extractor as suggested by BR.

There was a somewhat complex story behind the story with this rebarrel job and if with an easy fix or oversight on my part being pointed out I could avoid the hassle and risk of shipping this back and forth it would be worth the effort to explore it and this time it worked out.

Thanks everyone for your comments on this post. KCA is a great resource!
  
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